[Chron] Bob McNair: Carr's future remains in limbo

Here is the big answer- Sage R. always looked more comfortable and performed better than Carr in pre-season games and certainly didn't hurt the team that 2nd half he played at Nashville. I wouldn't expect any QB to excel on an expansion team (though we shouldn't be that after 5 yrs. but we still are)

VY would have been a perfect fit here and the team would be way ahead of where it is now, but that blunder is history.

A % of Carr's sacks were on him, his holding the ball too long and his pocket presence which is not very good.

We don't know who would be an upgrade at this point because there is not a really can't miss prospect in the draft and nothing but dregs left to us in Free Agency.

But Plummer would be at least = to Carr and we could let DC move on.

Sage is better than Carr IMHO,

Face it, since we messed you know what up, there aren't going to be better options anytime soon.

 

but max, just as poor OL line play doesn't excuse david carr; carr's play doesn't excuse poor OL play. they were awful last year, independent of anything else going on with the team. we can't, every time we try and discuss the team, run back to the carr crutch. yes, he was disappoiting. the OL, however, was terrible. the pass protection poor, the run blocking even worse.

two quick points: a) shanahan/kubiak's system doesn't work that way; it's foundation is running the football; it's used to set-up the pass. rewatch the indianapolis game to see what the system looks like when being run to absolute perfection; b) andre johnson led the league with 103 receptions; 35% of the team's completions were to him; he very nearly totaled more receptions than the next 3 guys on the team combined...

IOW, they threw to AJ a lot and your contention is that they threw to him that many times short and underneath because they didn't trust carr to throw deep? that makes no sense to me. if this year was to evaluate carr... why would you have him throw short slants to a pro bowl WR? what can you gather from doing that? wouldn;t you want to see him air it out if that was something you hoped to utilize in your game plan?

trust may have been a factor, but a small one, imo, because the biggest factor is that the offense is designed to throw underneath to the WR and let them, not the QB, make plays. that's one of the reasons plummer got "better" when he came to denver - the onus to try and do everything was taken off of him.

i certainly understand and appreciate the frustration, but this year took steps backwards? by any tangible measure, they improved over last year's team significantly, save for the running game. at this point last year, how many core guys could you list moving forward? aj and dunta. they've added mario and demeco and, because casserly never did it, built a much sturdier foundation - guys like spencer, daniels, weaver will be major contributors, and people like dayne, salaam, maddox are going to be valuable role players. not to mention, of course, kubiak and smith, so far, have proven to be significant upgrades, as well.

frankly, i've never been more excited about a coming texan season than i am about 2007. i think the QB play will be improved; i think they're going to improve the running game, and i think the defense has the potential to be one the afc's best. 7-9 wins (barring, of course, major setbacks) seems very plausible if they have another productive offseason.

 

btw, i wanted to follow-up by posting this quote from kubiak from saturday's paper; to me, it says a lot and backs up much of my previous assertion:

that last sentence is chilling - a highly-decorated offensive mind was befuddled at the legnths teams went to shutout andre johnson... and we think it's because he didn't trust david carr? i just don't see it... sorry.

 

1. i'm not excusing the OL entirely. i'm suggesting they're not 100% of DC's troubles. i'm suggesting that you can improve what you're getting at the QB position even without improving the OL. however, i hope they improve both.

2. i don't care what the system is. if you have the ability to throw the ball down the field, you make it easier for your rushing attack. if linebackers and DB's know that you won't throw past 17 yards, they tend to play and align themselves differently.

3. you've been critical of AJ, too. i'm not sure how this is relevant when you consider AJ's average was around 11 yards. yes, they threw the ball to AJ a lot. no, it did not spread the field.

4. plummer threw the ball down the field in Denver. in fact, one of the criticisms of Plummer was that he aired it out too much there. that he went for the deep ball too often instead of checking down to a safer play.

5. trust was absolutely the issue, in my view. in the last 7 games of the season, Carr didn't complete one pass in excess of 25 yards. in the 9 games prior to that, he did that 5 times. there is little question in my mind that, as the season progressed, kubiak reigned him in. i think that STARTED in the game vs. the titans in late October. the same game he benched him.

6. you're right...the team did improve. i misspoke. the QB did not.

7. are you assuming a change at QB when you say you think the play will be improved?

 

does that cast doubt on kubiak's abilities to you?

 

Consider the following: Andre Johnson finished 1st in receptions, but 11th in yards. Also, look at his career:

2003: 14.8 yds per catch, 6.7 of which was YAC, so 8.1 yards on average on the throw itself.

2004: 14.5, 6.2 = 8.3 on the throw

2005: 10.9, 3.6 = 7.3 on the throw

2006: 11.1, 4.5 = 6.6 on the throw

Within the season itself, AJ's YPC and such were much better early in the season than late. They might have wanted to air it out some, but if your QB keeps screwing up when he does, then you can't. They took the ball out of Carr's hands the latter part of the season. It's a misconception that the west-coast style offense doesn't focus on the deep pass. It certainly uses a lot of short passes, but it mixes in the bombs in there - they are just set up more with all the short stuff and running, but they are major piece of it. That's one reason why TO was so ridiculously good his first season in Philly. He was that perfect down-the-field receiver to complement all the crap receivers they had that could handle the short stuff. Its also why Cutler's strong deep-throwing ability is such a perfect fit for Denver. We tried to run the WC offense without the critical deep component, because Kubiak didn't really trust Carr to make those plays.

Plummer's yards per attempt numbers went up when he went to Denver (partly because he was on a better team with better receivers). Rod Smith's YPC went up as well with Plummer starting (and went down this year w/o Plummer/Kubiak).

 

whats befuddling is the lengths people will go to defend Carr. Its OK to cast doubt on the OL, the RBs but not the golden boy QB.

He's had plenty of chances to prove his worth, time to move on.

Hopefully what Kubiak means by balanced is another QB in the offense

 

whats befuddling is the lengths people will go to attack Carr.

 

*All* extremes, and the arguments (lengths) people employ to get there, are "befuddling".

Where do you stand on David Carr? Can the Texans win 7 or 8 games with him next year, assuming continued improvement in the rest of the team? Can the Texans ever win 12 or 13 games with David Carr at QB?

What is your opinion of David Carr's pocket presence, reading of defenses, and decision making? Those aren't "great lengths"; they are things we can observe, if not measure.

Not trying to be combative; I'm genuinely interested.

 

IMO, if David Carr was surrounded by the same talent that Plummer was in Denver for the majority of his time there, yes, I believe that the Texans could win 12 or 13 games with Carr at QB.

That does not take into account other factors such as external pressure by the fans and the media. That's why I'm in favor of letting him go this offseason. If he's here next season, he's going to have to start the season off on fire and lead us to a few wins in a row to calm down the masses.

I fully believe that Carr will be a successful QB in this league if he's ever on a more talented team than the one he's been on in his first five seasons. Just like Jake Plummer.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

do you think Plummer would be an upgrade THIS SEASON for the Texans over David Carr?

 

I think it's 50-50 that he would improve the team. If the Texans can sign him to a bargain contract after he is waived and have him compete with Carr, then I'm all for it. However, I don't think it's a good idea to entrust the job to Plummer while throwing away both DC and/or a pick in hope that there will be an improvement.

 

I think due to the lack of pressure from the fans, probably. But I'm not going to be upset if Plummer doesn't come. The stats show that he's as bad as David Carr when he's on a ****ty team. That said, I think the Texans will be much improved in all facets next year, so he probably won't be as bad as he was in Arizona.

I still believe that if Carr is our starter next year that it's not necessarily a bad thing because for the first time in his career, he'll have actually won the starting job. It won't be handed to him this season.

 

I argued the same thing for four-and-a-half years, so I definitely see where you guys are coming from. I no longer buy it myself, but I sincerely hope I get proven wrong. I'll eat my crow gladly.

 

I honestly don't think it's possible here. Most likely, if he's the starter next year, the boo birds will be out after the first incomplete pass of the season. Not many people could succeed in that scenario.

 

I'll say it again since this thread is bringing me back nightmares....


Vince Young will start in the Super Bowl
Before David Carr starts in a playoff game

(and if Carr starts for the Texans next season, I hope I am WRONG!)

 

Puhlease.

 

David Carr will never make the playoffs and will be out of the league in 3 years.

 

you're looking at the offensive line from a pass protection perspective only. when your passing game AND running game is struggling... how much should we really be focusing on the QB?

carr has his faults; the OL has many, many more.

max, reread kubiak's quote - defenses were able to focus on AJ and that was due to.... what? a lack of balance. you can talk about systems in general all you want - i'd prefer we talk about this system, and it's predicated on the running game setting up the pass, thus all the play-action and bootlegs they wanted and tried to run. you can't run those if you're a pass-first offense.

max, it goes back to my disconnect - why, if this year was a chance for kubiak to evaluate carr in game situations, would they send the team's best player on 5-7 yards slants underneath so consistently? because they didn't trust the QB?????? that makes ZERO sense, at least to me.

if you're going to buy a new car, are you going to only test drive it in school zones?

yeah, i know - know why? because the system isn't built around the QB taking chances. that's my point! it's built around short, safe, underneath passes that put your playmakers (RBs, WRs and TEs) in position to make plays while minimizing the probability of your QB making a mistake.

but sure, let's bring plummer here for the SOLE purpose of him doing the one thing that got him run out of the system in denver that we're trying to implement here. makes a TON of sense. seriously, a full-blown ton of sense........

everything from your perspective, imo, begins with it being carr's fault and works backwards from there. case in point, they passed less over the final 8 weeks of the season. must be david carr's fault...

how about: in week 8, they lost two more starters on the OL, bringing the total to 3 for the year. additionally, the running game, at last, showed significant signs of life as they grew more comfortable with the new blocking scheme. in the first 8 weeks, they totaled 100 yards rushing in a game (minus carr's rushing totals) once. ONCE! four times they averaged less than three yards a carry, including 1.4 against dallas.

in the final 8 weeks, they topped 100+ 7 times and only once (against the jets) did they averaged less than 3.9 yards a rush.

their record in weeks 1-8: 2-6
their record in weeks 9-16: 4-4 with two losses on the game's final play.

but yeah, the passing game being scaled back because of david carr - see what i mean? not the injuries to the OL, not the emergence, finally, of a running game. it was because kubiak didn't "trust" carr, even though we have a quote from kubiak that expresses specifically a lack of "balance" in the offense and how it hurt the team's best offensive player, who happens to be an integral part of the passing game.

no. and no, on the question of whether kubiak's befuddlement worries me. he's a rookie head coach; i fully expect him to be able to find answers.