They would not have been better off with him up until now but who's to say what the future holds. Brewer is not just a run of the mill athletic body, he has skill. His ball handling is already much better than Battier's and he has improved alot since coming to the league. Shane came to the league fundamentally sound and hasn't improved much since then. Brewer has improved alot and if he continues to improve on those "fundamentals" then he could easily become better than Shane. My point of that statement was to say that if Brewer even comes close to the long range shooting stroke and defensive intelligence of Battier, his athleticism will make him more productive. So, if you were overlooking that then you were being stupid. You can learn what Shane has.
Ease up on him a bit because he is having a hard time taking that ass whoopping I just gave him on Clutchfans internet message board. I mean, pray that he will recover.
First you forget adding Battier also allowed us to dump Swift. No one was going to take Stromile from us and we all know he was a bum, so that should factor in how the roster was effected by this trade. Secondly, Battier's lack of athleticism does not effect him like most players because his game doesnt rely on athleticism. He is not a huge shot blocker and uses positioning more then speed. He is a spot up shooter on offense and last I checked you dont need to run fast or jump high to do that. Third, you mention all of Battier's weaknesses but does that really effect this team. Who cares if he has weak ball handling and can not play guard. Last I checked we dont need him to play guard or handle the ball. You say he is full of wear and tear injuries, yet he has played about 80 games every year in the league. Its not like he is injury prone at all. Fourth, you describe Brewer's strong points as being a team player who plays D. Are you saying Battier isnt that way? He is undeniably one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and on a totally different level then Brewer. Brewer may have a mid range jumper, but he cant shoot the three to save his life and on this team, we need that more then a mid range jumper. All these wide open shots you say that Yao and Tmac give Battier would not be as so wide open for Brewer if he was 6 feet inside the three point line. Fifth, the free throw comment is also insignificant. Battier doesnt play a game that lends itself to high numbers of free throws. So even if he shoots it at a 90 percent clip it doesnt mean much to total points scored. Its like people who whine that Hayes cant shoot free throws. Does it really matter when he only takes like 25 a year? Lastly, people can and will argue about whether adding Battier was a mistake. But to pretend that he has no value or somehow was a catastrophic pick up that set this team back for years, is ridiculous.
You point of your statemnet is "if" and "could" Come into the more intelligent universe of the "What really is" then, and only then, can you apperciate the fact of the "Battier of Now"
You posting drunk on Sundays again?? Even after several posts you've still yet to add anything of relevance to this thread, not even an ass "whoopping" of any sort
Wow dude, wow, this was an absolutely awesome post. This post made me shut up and I am in disagreement with pippendagimp so I hope he takes que and shuts up as well. pippendagimp /IGNORE
This is the first time...what are you talking about. Brewer can't hold Battiers jock and you know it.
Finally an intelligent reply - thank you. I don't pretend he has no value, on the contrary I'm upset that he's hurt b/c he can obviously help us win games. I agree that the trade allowed us to dump Stro's contract. I also agree that on D his lack of athleticism is not a big deal b/c he is principally a position defender anyways, so as long as he's able to force his man the direction he wants to or get a hand up on J's then that's all that really matters. But on offense his lack of athleticism really hampers us. He cannot finish consistently inside or on the break, and in a cutting motion offense this is a significant drawback. It would also improve the offense if he was able to handle the ball not only in terms of providing a 3rd ballhandler to bring the ball upcourt, but also as having a player who could actually attack the rim in the halfcourt offense. In the playoffs we had to rely on a 161lb rookie to come in and make something happen in part because when Tmac took a break there was nobody else who could break down the defense. I agree his FT shooting isn't such a liability b/c he can't draw fouls anyways. I only mentioned Brewer's D and teamplay in respect of Battier's. I'm saying he is also a coach's dream and at the same time gives you a strong finisher and reliable jumpshooter, albeit only from midrange. Yes, Battier is a much better 3 point shooter. But last year he was streaky as can be. Several game long shooting droughts during several stretches of the season. IMO, the gamble was that Battier would help us get over the hump in his first couple seasons with us. But with all the injuries we flamed in the first round for consecutive seasons. So, IMO the trade has not worked out for us.
we do need our best players in november so i hope shane pulls something out his sleeve but we have ron so its good.
and what have you added?? actually i'd prefer you not add anything. reading your piker daytrader drivel in the hangout is already bad enough. you truly think because you've been sitting in a boiler room for a few years and read about jesse livermore one time, that you should be doling out investment advice. you don't even realize that i've been directing about 25 people to your posts in the past 4 years. and not just for laughs. no, for these colleagues the diarrhea you've been posting month after month has been a market psychology indicator for what the average fool on the street is thinking. you've been a lab rat subject for people trading real $$$$ and you never even knew.
lol ok i don't work at kershner trading. i just cold call people all day. you got me. i don't actually trade hundreds of thousands of shares a day. nah...i wouldn't have a clue how to do that. btw...if you think you are so awesome post your numbers because i'm not afraid to post mine. have you been short the whole way down?
actually, for a guy that's (face) guarding mostly perimeter players he's a sensational shot blocker. he averaged 1.1 bpg last year. i don't know any perimeter defender who's a better shot blocker than shane. other than that i totally agree with your post. good points you made.
Battier's injury/surgery, like someone mentioned earlier, was not very complicated and the ORIGINAL timetable had him ready before opening night. However, a month ago during the start of training camp he pushed off a little too hard and tweaked the already-healing foot. That is what caused him to miss the extra time. He didn't plan on missing the preseason at the time of surgery. Its not that big of a deal as far as the injury is concerned. Its like a cut that is already healing and has a scab, then you mess with it and it starts to bleed again. All it means is its going to take a little longer to heal, but the injury itself isn't any worse.
We all know that Battier is soft and lazy and doesn't have the drive to get out of the first round of playoffs. This is just another excuse for him...
An intelligent GM has to juggle the "if/could" with the "what really is". ... and your condescending tone isn't helping your argument, whatever that is. The only thing we seem to be in disagreement about is whether or not potential should be factored into drafting/transactions. Seems like a pretty basic concept to me.
I'd have to respectfully disagree. We will only see if the trade has worked out for us after the next two seasons. I am salivating at the thought of throwing BOTH Artest and Battier at the Kobes, Lebrons and Wades of this league. I can't really imagine a better defensive 1-2 punch at the perimeter.
We were never going to pick gay or brewer, if the deal didn't go through then we would have picked Sefalosha, and this is straight out of the horse's mouth All other "ifs" and"whats" are irrelevant, end/thread
Would a medical doctor on the board please give their opinion as to why all the players who had surgeries LAST SPRING are not ready for the season in NOVEMBER. It seems like this could be the case for average citizens, but not twenty something professional athletes. And none of the surgeries sounded that major at the time. If we are being unreasonable for thinking this, please correct us.
It always disappointing when our players take late surgeries that keep them out of regular season games. It amazes me that Batman and Tmac didn't do this right after the Utah loss. No way Battier isn't ready by now if that had happen. I'm with everyone else, stop the Rudy Gay talk. It's a done deal and yes Morey got this one wrong (Ron Ron makes up for this though). The only thing we got out of it was first round losses. If we can get a nice player in the 27 age range for Luther and Batman, I'm all for it. Why is it that Battier is always off limit in trade. What has any team beside Duke won with him. Dude never steps up. Yes, be plays tremendous D, but where is the O. Non existent. Hopefully when he comes back, he comes back with a full game. At least the people like Elie could hit key shots.
