[Chron] Adelman: "Someone is not going to play."

This quote is brought to you buy the "Rafer Alston is elite in many area's of his game" guy.


LOL. Howard for a career is 18 bajillion times better the player Alston could ever dream of.

All this time I couldnt believe some of the stuff coming from you. Now I know you know absolutely nothing about "good" basketball.

 

um yea, if ur not a GOOD player, u don't last in the L like he has. u don't get the contracts that he has. he's not a STAR.

there's a HUGE difference b/t a GOOD player and a STAR player. and i'm talking about his career. he has been a good player, not great, not bad, just good.

but why should i trust your opinion when you advertise rafer and diss francis all over the place and don't even what francis brings to the tablet

 

don't say that to him though. rafer is a BEAST to him.

 

You almost answered your own question. The reason he had so few attempts is because there is a very small area on the floor where he is capable of making a shot. That makes a player extremely easy to defend. Having the ball "in scoring position" is, by definition for Chuck, a very very tiny area of the floor near the basket. Therein lies the problem. Nuff said.

BTW, good discussion.

 

Exactly Dreamshake. Some people seem to confuse "good" player with "great" player. Someone used the logic that since he didn't "carry" a team to the playoffs he isn't a good player. What kind of idiotic logic is that? Damon Stoudamire is a good player. He never carried anyone to the playoffs. I think everyone would agree that Sam Cassell is a good player and he didn't carry anyone to the playoffs. Cuttino Mobley is a good player and he never carry anyone to the playoffs. The problem is, Howard got a 100 million dollar contract and people can't see through that. Now, all of a sudden, he isn't a good player. Someone even blamed him for the Rockets series loss saying if he was a good player he wouldn't have missed shots last year. What in the world? I mean my god.

 

That is quiet a convincing argument....

I am looking at the 'quality' Juwan Howard's performance in playoffs for Dallas. *cringes* Did you also just mention quality and Walker in the same sentence?

Also, neither Jamison or Walker could play PF/C for Dallas effectively. They would compete with Dirk/Josh for minutes. Juwan, had he been any help to Dallas at all, would have stayed on to complement Dirk and others. Again, Juwan had almost NO competition and he still failed.

They made it to the second round in spite of him, not because. His biggest contribution of that series was the hard/dirty foul he put on Derek Anderson. (The pretender in him had to try to keep his *tough* image)

You are comparing role player to superstars but I will play.

All Juwan had to do was perform half-way decent in playoffs as a role-player. I mean seriously, just half way..... his playoff performance for Dallas and Houston was downright terrible!!!! Juwan is the Anti-Horry.

if Tmac and Yao had his kind of performances, Rox management would have had some serious problem on their hands.

If it makes you feel better though, I still hold playoff failures of tmac/Yao against them though. They are not great players. They are very good to good to me.. When they start winning playoff series on a consistent basis, WCF, Finals appearances etc etc.. they will be great.


They are good-very good simply because they are much more talented and they do 10 times as much as Howard could ever dream of doing. When they start winning when it really counts, they will be considered greats.

Your comparison would be valid if they were equally talented, but it is far from it.

See above.

 

If Chuck has zero offensive game, where would you put clearly inferior offensive players such as Michael Ruffin or Jason Collins?

Chuck's makes up for his offensive deficiencies in other ways. Because he and his teammates know his limitations quite well, he doesn't waste possessions with bad shots. Moreover, he gets the team extra possessions with his offensive rebounding. The shots he does attempt, he shoots a very high percentage on. That adds to a player who may not be a "good offensive player", but certainly is better than a zero. Was Chuck a zero in game 2, when his work on the offensive end was primarily responsible for keeping us from getting blown out in the first half?

Look at Yao and McGrady's stats last year with and without Chuck on the floor. If he's such an "offensive liability", wouldn't you logically expect them to get worse? In fact, they get better. Same thing happened his rookie year too.

 

Sure, our other PGs were terrible, but why didn't they easily pick up a Jason Hart or trade for a Dan Dickau or Travis Diener or Brevin Knight or Jasikevicius or Duhon or Anthony Johnson or Anthony Carter (who can tell the Antonies apart anyway?) or host of other expendable point guads on other rosters who won't cost much, if anything, to obtain and just hand them part of Rafer's minutes since Rafer is so terrible? Some of these other guys got minutes for other teams, if Rafer is terrible all over, are these guys all ultra terrible at the Lucas level? Are there that many ultra terrible players in this league?

If a big chunk of the league is more terrible than the terrible Rafer Alston, doesn't that mean finding a normal terrible Rafer Alston is not that easy and terrible Rafer Alston is useful by definition?

Is it just semantics?


I don't care what people lable a player as... Bottom line: Rafer Alston got minutes on a 50 win team, and the team was good while he was on the floor, despite his flaws (and frankly, despite Battier's flaws and Chucks and TMac's and Yao's), and it's looking he'll get minutes again this season.

I don't care to root one way or another, but if Adelman does give Alston PT when real games get played despite the added PGs on the team, will you admit that Adelman does see things differently than you do?

Or will you keep on claiming that Adelman is just trying to showcase Rafer, even at the risk of ruining his own season?

We'll see what Adelman does and how you people react to it.

 

I am looking at the 'quality' Juwan Howard's performance in playoffs for Dallas. *cringes* Did you also just mention quality and Walker in the same sentence?

First of all, I know you're not going to be stupid enough to say that Walker wasn't a damn good player. He is a lazy player and a selfish player, but still a good player. You don't put up 18 ppg, 8 rpg and 4 apg by accident. And he has been to the Conference Finals twice and has an championship ring. Here is the quality performances for Howard:

2001 playoffs

Game 1 at Utah: 14 points 9 rebounds
Game 2 at Utah: 17 points 7 rebounds
Game 3 vs Utah: 18 points 11 rebounds
Game 4 vs Utah: 6 points 5 rebounds
Game 5 at Utah: (deciding game) 19 points 8 rebounds

They made it to the second round in spite of him, not because. His biggest contribution of that series was the hard/dirty foul he put on Derek Anderson. (The pretender in him had to try to keep his *tough* image)

I guess those first round numbers of his that I posted didn't help at all. Funny how you call it a dirty play yet Derek Anderson still doesn't consider it a dirty play. And he is still friends with Howard to this day. By the way, his second round numbers:

Vs San Antonio

Game 1: 8 points, 2 rebounds
Game 2: 9 points 11 reounds
Game 3: 12 points 10 rebounds
Game 4: 17 points 8 rebounds
Game 5: 14 points 12 rebounds

Those were, by the way, against Tim Duncan. His first round numbers were against Karl Malone.


You are comparing role player to superstars but I will play.

Please do.

All Juwan had to do was perform half-way decent in playoffs as a role-player. I mean seriously, just half way..... his playoff performance for Dallas and Houston was downright terrible!!!!

The entire team's effort was terrible. It's pretty sad that you're trying to dump and entire team's effort on one guy.

if Tmac and Yao had his kind of performances, Rox management would have had some serious problem on their hands.

Duh. They're the stars of the team. Howard was not the centerpiece of the Rockets.

If it makes you feel better though, I still hold playoff failures of tmac/Yao against them though. They are not great players. They are very good to good to me.. When they start winning playoff series on a consistent basis, WCF, Finals appearances etc etc.. they will be great.

I don't care whether or not you consider Yao and T-Mac great players. You said that Howard wasn't a good player. Howard was a good player.

 

You addressed Walker with 'quality' I am sorry, but I don't consider Walker as a quality player and especially not a damn good player. Damn good ballhog, yes, definitely.

Hmm somethings missing. Let me help ya out.

In playoffs, for Dallas, Juwan attempted 136 shots.
In playoffs, for Dallas, Juwan MADE 49 shots.
FG % = 36% !!!!!

36% for a PF?!? Are you kidding me?? Anything below 40% shooting for a PF is a disgrace!!

I guess, looking at this % I should be thankful juwan shot 40% for the Rockets last year. Ha!

Shall we move onto to his defensive performance?

LOL! No they didnt after I corrected your omission. Not at all.

What can I say...Anderson is an angel.

Am i supposed to be impressed by them in light of the FG%?

Eh..Where did I dump it all on him? Please do point it out. The discussion was about his perception.

Excactly. So why even bring Tmac/Yao into the discussion?

To you. Not to me.

PS. Actually what a lot of people don't remember is that Howard did have one good showing in playoffs. It was eons ago when he was in Washington. He played good and had good numbers. That one showing cannot hold/change his resume though.

 

You addressed Walker with 'quality' I am sorry, but I don't consider Walker as a quality player.

What you consider quality doesn't matter, what everybody else considers quality does. And 18, 8 and 4 means he's quality.


Hmm somethings missing. Let me help ya out.

In playoffs, for Dallas, Juwan attempted 136 shots.
In playoffs, for Dallas, Juwan MADE 49 shots.
FG % = 36% !!!!!

36% for a PF?!? Are you kidding me?? Anything below 40% shooting for a PF is a disgrace!!

I guess, looking at this % I should be thankful juwan shot 40% for the Rockets last year. Ha!

Wow you're digging. Pathetic. Just admit you're wrong. You said he didn't have quality playoff performances, I named those performances, now you're whining about something else. Whatever. I'm curious though. You claimed he wasn't a good player, yet he's a 47% career shooter from the field. So that means you chose to ignore his shooting percentage during his career. Yet now you claim that shooting percentage is important in games that he put up big numbers in the playoffs. Make up your mind! Tell me again how those stats Howard put up didn't help Dallas get to the second round again?

LOL! No they didnt after I corrected your omission. Not at all.



What can I say...Anderson is an angel.



Am i supposed to be impressed by them in light of the FG%?

You're the only one not impressed.

Eh..Where did I dump it all on him? Please do point it out. The discussion was about his perception.

So you're either saying 1.)Yao and T-mac also aren't good players or, b.)Howard was responsible for the Rockets not advancing.

Excactly. So why even bring Tmac/Yao into the discussion?

Because you said that Howard wasn't a good player because he allegedly didn't help past teams he was on advance in the playoffs. T-Mac and Yao also haven't helped their teams advance in the playoffs. You said that a good player would have made shots and helped the Rockets advance past Utah. T-Mac and Yao also didn't hit shots and help the Rockets advance last year. That's why I brought T-Mac and Yao into the discussion.


To you. Not to me.

Then you don't know basketball. Every argument you have made has been shot down. If the best you can come up with is shooting percentage in a playoff run where a man was almost putting up double-doubles then you either can't handle losing an argument, or you have a disturbing, deep seeded hatred for Juwan Howard.

 

Who is everybody? Heat fans themselves cringe at Walker. Danny Ainge could not wait to dump Walker. Cuban said no thanks to Walker.

Ehh... I am trying hard to be impressed with 36% shotting..I am really am. I guess it doesnt matter if you shoot a measly % as long as you get your 15 points.

Cuban wasnt impressed either.

I never brought Tmac/Yao into discussion. You did. All I said was that I don't consider Howard to be a good player.

Howard was one of many reasons Rockets did not advance last year. For Howard's part, If he could hold the PF position against Boozer, it would have helped tremendously. or if he could have made a good % of his shots...

Ehh...I said, he cant even get them into playoffs. You are giving him too much credit by already putting a team led by him into playoffs. Woah! Slow down!.

When Juwan can carry even 1/10 of the responsibility of Yao and Tmac, your comparison will hold ground. Until then, its just laughable.

your most convincing argument yet.

 

Reading through another one of your posts is a waste of time. I have proven my point and shot down everything you have posted. Get over the blinding hatred of Howard and stop trying to win an argument you have lost. On a side note, what Cuban was impressed with doesn't matter to me. He still hasn't won a championship and his team got routed out of the playoffs by an 8 seed. That is all you need to know about Mark Cuban.

 

You are such an internet gunslinger!

Shoot down this....

Juwan Howard's playoff FG% = 36%

Massive improvement of 40% for the Rockets.

LOL!

 

15 ppg, 8 rpg vs Karl Malone in helping lead Dallas out of the first round. You wanted me to give you an example of Howard putting up quality playoff performances, there you go.

 

Didn't think you could.

 

15ppg on 'quality' 36% shooting!

Did I mention he is a PF, so he should be getting baskets around the hoop and thus even higher % than the guards?! *Rafer snickered*

Yikes!!!!

Try again!

 

Preseason means nothing to me.

 

Dallas beat Utah 3 games to 2. And he put up 15 and 8 in that series. That's all that matters.

 

Yao was put onto Boozer because Okur liked to hit the three. But if Hayes would have been effective on Boozer, he would have been on Boozer.