juwan is a good NBA player. please recognize that. but he's old and inconsistent. he got all WIDE OPEN jumpers in the playoffs and only hit them in game 5.
What's JVG's agenda in not criticising Rafer? That he wants to piss VSpan off? What is Yao's agenda for saying he performed very well all camp? Tracy's? Luther's? IC2000's? dennniscd's? As for Adelman.. people can suspect maybe he's just showcasing him for trade value... but he can give Rafer minutes, but he can't make Rafer not suck if indeed Rafer is in fact awful. And Rafer has looked good in games and, according to many teammates, in practices. And what if the games start to count and Rafer still gets his minutes? Is his agenda for showcasing so strong that he's willing to make the team suffer losses because Rafer is "terrible"? Give it a reast with all the conspiracy theories. Sometimes people say things because that's just what they think.
I am trying...really really hard. Its just that when I look at his career and resume loaded with cold hard facts.... Juwan and playoffs = oxymoron. Yet he is still good? Doesn't sound like a good player to me.
dude u don't earn that HUUUUUGE contract w/o being at least good. i said for his career he is a pretty good player. but last yr, he was inconsistent and that's expected b/c he's not young anymore. but still, he was inconsistent at the WRONG time.
Juwan still gets a beat down because of that contract. For the regular season sure....he would give you 15-20 points, 8+ rebounds, and a virtual non-entry in playoffs. He would get his numbers at expense of team success. So, how many playoff games for Juwan in his career? RIGHT time. Playoffs are when the real teams and players come out to play. Juwan did not age overnight. He had been hitting his jump shots quiet all right during the regular season when yao went out. But once he was put in the pressure cooker...
he gets beat down b/c he's a GOOD player, that contract is for a SUPERSTAR player. so that's my point. he's a GOOD player. again, you're making it seem like i said he's a GREAT player. a guy that gives u 12-14 pts and 6 boards is a GOOD player. not a lot of players can give u that.
JVG's agenda for not criticizing Rafer was that he kept playing him despite the intense criticism of Rafer's play. It wasn't in JVG's interest to acknowledge the flaws in Rafer's game because it would be self-incrimination. He figured that to get the most out of the guy he needed to back him up when everyone else was crushing him. This might surprise you, but I agreed with JVG on this tactic. Coaches that are publicly blunt about the flaws of rotation players risk getting even less out of them. If JVG had publicly said Rafer's shooting and defense were liabilities, he may as well have stabbed him. With no viable backup, that would have been suicide. Yao? Tracy? Luther? How often do players offer blunt criticism of teammates? Almost never. Why? It's a stupid thing to do. If someone is going to be on your team, it's in the interest of the team to praise them, even when the exaggeration is ridiculous. Remember Yao's comment comparing V-Span with Steve Nash? That was beyond ridiculous. Conspiracy is much too strong a word and distorts the discussion. Having followed the NBA for a very long time (like many others here), you just cannot take compliments from coaches about players at face value, especially when observation contradicts them. At the same time, the Rockets have to keep their options open about Rafer. They need to build him up as much as possible so he helps the team when on the floor and to maximize his trade value if they go that direction. Going forward, if Rafer's play improves from last season when the games start counting, great, especially if SF continues to struggle. But Rafer is what he is. If he has a career year, good for the Rockets. Most likely, he will revert to form and everyone will forget the first couple of pre-season games.
Again, his numbers come at expense of team success. For him to get his numbers he has to be one of the main options. If he is the one of those options, that team is not going anywhere. He didn't need to be superstar all these years. He could have been a good player on the Dallas team which was completely lacking in front court yet he was let go after just one season. Had he performed any where close to good, Cuban would have kept him and handsomely rewarded him since he was desperate for front court help. A good player would have found a way to help Dallas in the playoffs. A good player would have also found a way to help Rockets last year instead of throwing up horrendous bricks. And don't even get me started on Juwan's defense.... I am not making this all up. Juwan's playoff resume speaks for him.
Of course responsibility is shared. I didn't say otherwise. Tracy and Yao didn't play up to their capabilities but, I repeat, if we had fielded more than 3 breathing bodies on the court the Rockets still could have beaten Utah. Going 3 against 5 while on offense for 7 games is pretty tough. The shortcomings of Rafer and Chuck allowed the Jazz to defend us that way. Yao's lack of mobility on defense is a problem against all teams, the Jazz more than most others. The difference is Yao does enough on the court to be considered the best C in the NBA. Chuck, on the other hand, can be replaced with a much better player, Scola. It's hard to say which one had a bigger impact. For that matter, the total combined tank jobs by Luther and Juwan rank up there also.
If JVG thought Rafer was that terrible, why didn't he just stop playing him and/or moan about getting him traded? Believe me, when JVG doesn't like a guy, he has a way of getting the news out there. He knew Rafer's flaws. He talked about Rafer's inability to finish often. I believe he even talked about Rafer's weakness with P'n'R defense. He just didn't talke about weakneses that existed only in you people's minds. He just didn't talk about how Rafer was terrible in every way because, frankly, Rafer isn't and JVG knew that. We ain't just talking blunt criticism, we are talking about actual praises. Players don't bluntly criticise teammates often, but there was absolutely not need for them to get out of their way to praise Rafer Alston if he was actually terrible (notice that none of them is going out of their way praising Butler or Lucas, either even if they don't come out and calling for these guys to get cut). They could have just shut up or say something politically correct. Look at what's being written about Steve Francis... they like him, they try to be nice, but they don't say he's doing wonderfully when he's actually struggling to adapt. BTW, what about the scoreboard? The Rockets were generally good with Rafer on the floor, and generally mediocre with him off. What's the score operator's agenda? They don't want Rafer angry at them either? You don't take actual praises, not just lack of criticism, at face value because they contradict your biased opinion. And why do they need to build him up when he is ****ing terrible? Why do they think they need him when he's ****ing terrible and we have Mike James, Steve Francis, and Aaron Brooks? If they think they need him, then there is something he brings to the plate that makes him not easily replaceable via free agency or a minor trade.
so where would u rate him? pathetic, mediocre, average, good, borderline star, star, all-star, superstar, franchise player for his career, he's a good player. that's all i'm saying. if juwan is better in the playoffs, he would be rated higher than that. that's all i''m saying. i never said he was a star or an all-star. he's simply a good player.
First of all, during the regular season, we were very successful with that starting 5 with JVG as coach. In the crucible of a playoff series, a team's weakest links are exposed. That is what happened and it wasn't all JVG's fault. With Chuck and Rafer comatose on offense and Juwan and Luther already dead and buried, the load was too much for Yao/Tracy/Shane to carry. Nothing JVG could have done would have made Rafer shoot better when open, Chuck to be able to score, Juwan to hit a shot or for Luther not to be jittery like a kitten.
How many times did Chuck even have the ball in scoring position? You act like he was constantly open, getting tons of attempts, and kept screwing up. The guy shot 70% from the field in the series. He hardly got any shot attempts. If he was always open (which is implied by your argument that the defense could key in on Yao and McGrady), isn't that kind of his teammates' responsibility to get him the ball? What was he supposed to do different, shoot 90%?
If you want your team to win --- Pathetic to Mediocore If you want a player who will get you 15/8 while not caring for team success --- Good If you want your team to win in playoffs - PATHETIC! Overall, Average at best. I am sorry but wins are the most important thing to me. If a player cant contribute to a team's success then he cant be good! If basketball season ends for you before playoffs begin, then he was definitely a good player for you, I guess...as long as you don't put too much emphasis on wins (Afterall, if that were the case he would have couple of more playoff appearances atleast). Of course not. We would never be having this conversation if you did. Excessive ROFLing would have kept me away from my keyboard. If you are into individual stats. And that too was.
i dont know ANYONE in their right mind who would call juwon a good nba player. then i saw it was doublehh posting
No disrespect, but you clearly don't know anything about basketball if you think that Howard wasn't a good NBA player. Try looking at stats sometimes.
Uh, no he just didnt shoot it. As attested to his hot zones graph showing he took exactly 1 shot outside of the key for the ENTIRE season. Let me digress. Chuck took 335 shots last year. 322 were directly under the basket(all feeds from TMac I would assume). He took 12 whopping shots in the key or from 5 feet away. And made 3. Then he took one Jumpshot within the the three point arc. Now if that isnt a DIRECT, "this person has ZERO offense game, then I dont know what is. If that isnt someone you can rotate off of and let roam free all game long...I dont know what is. Add that to Rafers absolute complete inability to hit any of his open shots feeding from TMac and Yao and you have a recipe for Playoff failure.
How could he stop playing him when the alternatives were worse? Plus, Rafer is a likeable, obedient guy which JVG (and all coaches and teammates) appreciate a lot. He's the kind of teammate coaches and players like having around. Rafer has a fragile personality and JVG knew piling on would only make things worse. JVG backed Rafer to the max when the pressure was most intense. It was quite amazing. I suppose we remember it differently but when it was the darkest, JVG defended Rafer's honor because he needed to get whatever he could out of him. Nobody said Rafer was "was terrible in every way". Don't make stuff up and ruin the discussion. Again, Rafer is very likable so the praise is not unexpected. There is no reason for his teammates to add any fuel to the controversy. I've heard enough nonsense praise from players to teammates that you can't always take it for face value. Besides, I believe Rafer has had a good camp and preseason so far, last game excluded. Whatever, blah blah blah. Dumb filler nonsense. How many times has it been said our other PGs were worse? Would it help you if I said it again? I already explained why they build him up. That is what teams do to their players, especially likable ones. Rafer's good camp is a positive for everyone and I'm happy about, especially with SF struggling. It may keep him on the Rockets, maybe not. If he sinks to the depths of last season, his floor time will sink with it. For that we should all be grateful.
Again, his numbers come at expense of team success. For him to get his numbers he has to be one of the main options. If he is the one of those options, that team is not going anywhere. That is a ridiculous comment. If you're good, you're good. He said that Howard was a good player and he is. He didn't need to be superstar all these years. He could have been a good player on the Dallas team which was completely lacking in front court yet he was let go after just one season. Had he performed any where close to good, Cuban would have kept him and handsomely rewarded him since he was desperate for front court help. Yeah, because Cuban doesn't have a history of letting quality frontcourt players go. If you don't count Howard, Jamison and Walker that is. A good player would have found a way to help Dallas in the playoffs. Dallas made the playoffs with Howard. In fact, they made it to the second round. Howard averaged 13 ppg and 8 rpg in the playoffs that year. A good player would have also found a way to help Rockets last year instead of throwing up horrendous bricks. And don't even get me started on Juwan's defense.... So I guess Yao and McGrady aren't good players either. I am not making this all up. Juwan's playoff resume speaks for him. You're right. 11 ppg, 7 rpg which aren't bad considering he's not the main players on those teams, save for Washington (and even then Webber was mostly "the man"). And, unlike Yao and T-Mac, Howard has gotten to the second round of the playoffs and was a major reason for his team getting to the second round when he put up ridiculous numbers against Karl Malone and the Utah Jazz in the first round.
