Sometimes I can be as thick as a brick. I am still having trouble connecting the dots ... Newton physics, determistic ... check Quantum physics, probalistic ... check Observed phenomena that fits neither model ... check Intelligent Design explaining phenomena ... huh?
I think he sent down 5 prophets because humans are imperfect and would be unable to adjust to certain standards immediately. It's much easier for someone to lose weight over a year than over 1 month. It can be done both ways, but some won't succeed in one month, and some will gain it all back. So he sent down his "message" in 5 levels of difficulty to give humans the ability to adjust. That's according to my faith though, I don't know if that concept applies in other faiths.
I really don't understand your line of questioning, but I'll keep answering: He didn't want them to believe that he's God. He didn't want his creations (humans) to believe forever that Jesus died, which is why he sent down the Qura'an. However, the disciples believed what they saw, and God obviously will forgive them because they had no fault. If I had to put out a hypothetical, it would be that maybe he saw that they went too far with believing that he's God, so he made it appear as if he died whereas God never dies in any way, in any amount, under any cirmustance, for absolutely no reason or purpose. Then later on he sent down the Qura'an to clarify. But that's just an opinion, in fact, I only JUST thought of it right now. Ofcourse, now you're going to say then "well are you saying that God failed, because Christians believe that Jesus is God." So I'll answer that right away by saying that humans failed, not God. If God was going to intervene in every single action on earth, then why not just put the right people in heaven and the "right" people in hell since he knows what's going to happen anyway? I'll answer that one too. Because God wants to be worshipped, and that's the first purpose of human beings. You're wondering if I think God has some sort of self-esteem problem? (If you don't say it, outlaw will). No, he doesn't. I don't know why he wants it. But I know that God created me, and if that's what he wants, that's what he's got. If all I have to do to have eternity in heaven is worship God for my life, then so be it. If I created a toy robot, I'd want it to do a whole bunch of thigns, and would be furious if it decided to just stop doing what I tell it to do. But this whole conversation is useless since we don't share the same beliefs, so I can't validate my arguments with you, as my source is the Qura'an while yours is the Bible.
Sane, If it's some how wrong to worship Jesus because he's not really God per se according to your religion, then why do Muslims revere and worship Mohammed so much? He certainly didnt live the pure life Jesus led so why do some Muslims refer to Christians as infidels when they are doing the same thing that they acuuse Christians of doing?
That's funny, I thought the Quaran was written by Arab people who lived about 500 or 600 years after Christ's walk on earth. Wouldn't wanna trust those darn Jews who hung around Christ and wrote down what they saw. I guess some secret guy found the secret of eternal life on earth and hooked up Mohammed with the truth after all those annoying Jews with their silly ideas about what they saw were long gone.
Boy, you didn't take the time to read the discourse in this thread at all, did you? As to your other post, Muhammed is revered, but NOT worshipped. One of the stories about Muhammed's death is that one of the leaders says something like: "For those of you who worship Muhammed, know that he is dead. For those of you who worship God, know that He is still here." Something like that - I don't remember the exact words, but it emphasizes that the religion worships God, not Muhammed. And that's a critical difference between the Christian and Muslim versions of Jesus. Jesus is another earlier prophet who is to be revered, but not worshipped as God.
If you're asking did God want the disciples to see Jesus die, then my answer is yes. What's your point KB?
hotballa, Clearly you have no clue what you're talking about, as Rocket104 pointed out. Muhammad PBUH is the human being (like me and you) that God picked to spread his final message. He is not supernatural, he is not superior in the sense that he's better than us, he's superior in the sense that we respect him for the life he led, we respect him because God picked him. I have lived in the Middle East my entire life, and never saw anything even close to worshipping Muhammad PBUH. If your'e asking if I believe in the Jewish bible, then the answer is YES, I believe in what was the original Jewish bible that God intended for Moses to spread. If you read through this thread properly, you'd have known that I said Muslims consider both the original Jewish and original Christian Bibles as Allah's message. I'm sorry if that's offensive, but I'm just explaining what we believe. Rocket104 had the best example, I was thinking it before I read his post. The quote that "For those of you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead and in his grave. For those of you who worship God, he will never die." We don't "celebrate" his birthday. Perhaps you're reffering to the worship of Muhammad as something you've seen on TV - like when the Shi'ite Muslims beat themselves and stuff. But that's not for Muhammad either, that's for other people. I don't know where you got the idea that Muslims worship Muhammad PBUH.
Why would I consider it offensive if you believe something? What kind of attitude is that? It's not like I think you're an Infidel just because you believe in something. You might as well be sorry and apologize for believing that Muhammed was a prophet. That's your beliefs Sane, I might disagree with it, but I aint gonna kill you for it. So if you have anything to say to me, don't lead off with bs apologies.
And who decided to pluck and choose what parts of the bible to be held as truth and which to be held as falsehoods? Mohammed shoulda been more creative and come up with his own thing, instead of biting off of Christianity and editing out things for his own purpose. It's nice to see what a great leader he was, obvisouly he didn't stress the whole worshipping God is important thing otherwise his followers might not have gone so belligerent trying to choose who to follow after he died. If he stressed God's importance over man, maybe Muslims wouldn't have fought tooth and nail for the right to choose a HUMAN leader after the Mohamed's death.
Good point. I mean, it's not like Judaism has branches, or Christianity even. It's not like the Catholic Church ever tried to hurt Protestants... or that Protestants have ever fought the Catholic Church. And again, please go through the thread before you totally convince me of your inability to read complete sentences. Note that Islam does not consider the Quran as written by Mohammed. According to Muslims, it's the word of God transcribed. There's no need to "be more creative". If you believe in God, good luck with asking for that.
Oh so you dont like it when I only read part of someting and discard the rest that I feel is useless? Isn't that the origins of Islam? Take what is needed from Judaism and Christinaity and filter out the rest to provide a religion more pleasing to Arabs? Well then who did write the Quaran? A Magic pen? BTW, I dont see Orthodox Jews and reformed Jews trying to kill each other. Protestant sects dont go around trying to beat each other up. When was the last time you saw a Baptist sect declare war on an Episcopilian sect? Plus the Catholic Church is the same as Islam in my eyes. Both took a pure message and twisted it around for their own personal gains.
Cmon tell me. I'm just a lowly Infidel who needs to be educated, please explain to me my questions as the wisdom espoused by some in this thread has obviously flown over my head. You dont have to blow up my city to get me to see your POV, I'm asking you to give it to me.
With all the religious and geopolitical conflicts since then and now, did humanity lose any meaningful weight at all?
That's not what I asked. I'll try again. Are you now conceding that God wanted Jesus' disciples to believe in a lie? Yes or no? I'm trying to determine what you think God wanted Jesus' disciples to believe regarding Christ's crucifixion, death and resurrection. When do you think was the last time they saw Jesus before he ascended into heaven?
hotballa, Show us some proof for the bull**** that's coming out of your mouth please. You didn't reply to my firstp ost because you have absolutely nothing to say. Admit it. I wrote a whole post, and all you replied to was my apology. I didn't have to apologize, and now I know someone like you doesn't even deserve one. The only thing you worship is yourself, because you think you've got it all figured out, and both the Christian and Muslim religions are absolutely wrong (how many percent of the world is that?). No disrespect to non-muslims and non-christians, but this guy is just talking out of his ass now. Muhammad picked and chose out of Juddaism and Christianity? If you knew ANYTHING about Islam you'd know that Muhammad was illiterate. He lived in a cave. He didn't have food, shelter, absolutey nothing. You're telling me he picked and chose from the two bibles and put them into one book? He couldn't read or write. Even the people who tried to murder him believed that. So don't sit here and tell me it was made up when his enemies claimed that he's illiterate. Just for YOUR information, the Qura'an was dictated to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel. He did not write it down the way he saw fit. He just copied whatever he was told word for word. So what are you referring to? Muhammad PBUH isn't/wasn't God, he didn't know when he was going to die. But he appointed someone in his place JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION. The problem was with who comes AFTER that one. I can tolerate lots of things, but when someone talks about something they have no clue... hotballa, where did you get all these beliefs from? I mean seriously, your info and your source are clearly wrong. I can gurantee that what you know about Islam is just a bunch of crap, while it was proved in the other thread that your info on Christianity is the same. When you actually do some readong, trying to get some real info, and find out what's true and what bull**** some people are trying to feed you, then come here and make your points. Till then, I won't even bother arguing with you anymore.
God wanted Jesus' disciples to believe that Jesus was/is human and, just like a human being, died in front of their eyes. That, however, was an illusion and didn't in fact happen. I believe God did this because the disciples started believing that Jesus is God. Although I'm not sure on the exact second where Jesus was switched with The Shabih, it was before he died. I'll try and find out if it was before he waas put up there or just right before he died. So in essence, God wanted the disciples to believe in an illusion. If you define illusion as lie, then yes he did.