In Christianity, Jesus is THE Son of God, part of the trinity, which has 3 equal parts - The Holy Spirit, The Father, and The Son. I don't know how much more divine than that it could get. Jesus was in human form. He wasn't created like us, but he was born like us, had the same body, so he would feel harm or hurt. I hope that answers your question.
I didn't ask a question I was answering another question by bringing up the implications that would arise if he was either not fully human or not fully divine.
http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B41C001.htm http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B41C014.htm#V61 First, "Son Of God" Mark 1:1 is a later redaction (see link). Second, Mark 14:61-62 is open to interpretation Reader's Digest Version: Mark 14:61 High Priest "Jesus, are you the Messiah, Son of God?" Mark 14:62 Jesus "I am. You and others will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of God" Is Jesus saying he is both the Son of God and the Son of Man? Or did the trinity just grow by one? Is Jesus prophetizing the coming Kingdom of Earth? Since the High Priest did not see the Kingdom of Earth, was Jesus fibbing? Was Mark 14:61 originally : High Priest "Jesus, are you the Messiah, Son of Man?"? Did this passage as originally written make sense to those who read the first draft? Did the passage make more or less sense after later redactions tried to help it along?
One question I just thought of.. Is Mary the Mother of the Son of God? She gave birth to Jesus, so that would make her his mother, right? How does she relate to God the Father?
The Testimony of the Evangelists: The Gospels Examined by the Rules of Evidence by Simon Greenleaf S.30 The great truths which the apostles declared were that Christ had risen from the dead, and that only through repentance from sin, and faith in him, could men hope for salvation. This doctrine they asserted with one voice, everywhere, not only under the greatest discouragements, but in the face of the most appalling terrors that can be presented to the mind of man. Their master had recently perished as a malefactor, by the sentence of a public tribunal. His religion sought to overthrow the religions of the whole world. The laws of every country were against the teachings of his disciples. Propagating their new faith, even in the most inoffensive and peaceful manner, they could expect nothing but contempt, opposition, revilings, bitter persecutions, stripes, imprisonments, torments, and cruel deaths. Yet this faith they zealously did propagate; and all these miseries they endured undismayed, nay rejoicing. As one after another was put to a miserable death, the survivors only prosecuted their work with increased vigor and resolution. The annals of military warfare afford scarcely of the like heroic constancy, patience, and unblenching courage. They had every possible motive to review carefully the grounds of their faith, and the evidences of the great facts and truths which they asserted, and these motives were pressed upon their attention with the most melencholy and terrific frequency. It was therefore impossible that they could have persisted in affirming the truths they have narrated, had not actually Jesus risen from the dead, and had they not known this fact as certainly as they knew any other fact. If it were morally possible for them to have been deceived in this matter, every human motive operated for them to discover and disavow their error. To have persisted in so gross a falsehood, after it was known to them, was not only to encounter, for life, all the evils which man could inflict from without, but to endure also the pangs of inward and conscious guilt; with no hope of future peace, no testimony of a good conscience, no expectation of honor or esteem among men, no hope of happiness in this life, or the life to come. S.47 There are other internal marks of truths in the narratives of the evangelists, which, however, need here be only alluded to, as they have been treated with great fullness and force by able writers, whose works are familiar to all. Among these may be mentioned the nakedness of the narratives; the absence of all parade by the writers about their own integrity, of all anxiety to be believed, or to impress others with a good opinion of themselves or their cause, of all the marks of wonder, or of desire to excite astonishment at the greatness of the events they record, and of all appearance of design to exalt their master. On the contrary, there is apparently the most perfect indifference on their part whether they are believed or not; or rather, the evident consciousness that they are recording events well known to all in their country and times, and undoubtedly to be believed, like any other matter of public history, by readers in all other countries and ages. Their simplicity and artlessness, also, should not pass unnoticed, in readily stating even those things most disparaging to themselves. Their want of faith in their master, their dullness of apprehension of his teachings, their strifes for preeminence, their desertion of the Lord in his hour of extreme peril; these and many other incidents tending directly to their own dishonor are nevertheless set down with all the directness and sincerity of truth, as men writing under the deepest sense of responsibility to God. The behavior of Jesus' disciples after his death is evidence that Jesus really did rise from the dead. The nature of the Gospel accounts testifies to the honesty and the truthfulness of the Gospel writers. THE TRANSFORMATION OF JESUS' DISCIPLES Jesus' disciples disowned and deserted him. What transformed them into disciples that were willing to die for him? "Propagating their new faith, even in the most inoffensive and peaceful manner, they could expect nothing but contempt, opposition, revilings, bitter persecutions, stripes, imprisonments, torments, and cruel deaths. Yet this faith they zealously did propagate; and all these miseries they endured undismayed, nay rejoicing." Jesus' disciples proclaimed that he had risen from the dead. Do you think Jesus' disciples believed that he had risen from the dead or do you think they knew/believed he had not? If neither, what do you think they believed? Why would they believe that Jesus had risen from the dead if he had not? Why would they proclaim that Jesus had risen from the dead if they knew/believed that he had not? Why would they be willing to die for what they knew/believed to be a lie? THE HONESTY OF THE EVANGELISTS The narratives of the evangelists bear internal marks of truth (i.e., the nakedness of the narratives). The Gospel writers readily stated even those things most disparaging to themselves and to all of Jesus' disciples. They were honest people. "Their want of faith in their master, their dullness of apprehension of his teachings, their strifes for preeminence, their desertion of the Lord in his hour of extreme peril; these and many other incidents tending directly to their own dishonor are nevertheless set down with all the directness and sincerity of truth, as men writing under the deepest sense of responsibility to God." Matthew 26:33-35 Peter replied, even if all fall away on account of you, I never will." "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night you will disown me three times," But Peter declared, "Even if I have to diie with you, I will never disown you." And all the other disciples said the same. Matthew 26:56 Then all the disciples deserted him and fled. Luke 22:59-62 About an hour later another asserted, "Certainly this fellow was with him, for he is a Galilean." Peter replied, "Man, I don't know what you're talking about." Just as he was speaking, the rooster crowed. The Lord turned and looked straight at Peter. Then Peter remembered the word the Lord had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly. AFTER JESUS' RESURRECTION John 21:17-19 The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!" Matthew 28:16-20 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Jesus' disciples said that they would never disown him. Peter disowned Jesus three times. "And he went outside and wept bitterly" (Luke 22:62). I believe that Peter went outside and wept bitterly. The disciples all deserted Jesus and fled. Jesus was crucified. What transformed Jesus' disciples from disciples that disowned and deserted him to disciples that were willing to die for him? John 20-19-20 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. Luke 24:45-53 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.
Mary was Jesus' mother. Mary is a child of God, just like all Christians are. Don't get confused because of the terms "Father" and "mother." God the Father is fully God. God the Son is fully God. God the Holy Spirit is fully God. God is one Being.
Because I don't believe the Bible, and thus I don't believe human beings were created in God's image. Nope. Nope. Double nope.
This makes no sense whatsoever. I don't want to hear about how it's difficult to explain the trinity either, I've heard that so much recently, and it's really getting old. So Mary was God's mother and God's child? If all Christians are the children of God, what does that make everyone else? Children of the devil? God created all humans. While I understand why you'd think God loves you more than non-Christians, I don't understand how I'm not one of God's children, since he created us both, and we're both of the exact same anscestry (Adam and Eve).
The problem is, you're already jumping to conclusions before No Worries is on board. So Jesus rose from the dead - is this anymore significant than Moses' splitting of the sea? You're trying to prove that he rose from the dead. While you may or may not do this, EVEN if you do succeed, it won't prove Jesus was divine.
So, God is not supposed to have emotions or......? Only Christianity states that humans are created in the image of God btw.
It doesn't make sense to you because you're thinking of "mother" as the counterpart to "Father." Mary was Jesus' mother; she gave birth to Jesus. Jesus (God the Son) is eternal. He had a mother because he entered the world in the flesh. Jesus was fully human. He was also fully God. A kid has a mommy and a daddy. Jesus had a mommy. Her name was Mary. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. Her husband was Joseph. He was Jesus' legal daddy, but not his biological daddy. Jesus did not have a biological daddy. "The child's mother and father marveled at what was said about him." —Luke 2:33 * "mother" = Mary; "father" = Joseph On earth, the biological father is before the son in terms of time. God is eternal. God the Father was not before God the Son in terms of time. God the Father has always existed. God the Son has always existed. God the Holy Spirit has always existed. God is one Being. God has always existed. God is eternal. "We use the term begotten of the relationship of the Father and the Son. The Son is eternally begotten by the Father. The Father is begotten by no one. Automatically we place this relationship within time and think of the Father orginating the Son. Most definitely not. The term as we use it here speaks of an eternal, timeless relationship. It had no beginning, it will have no ending. It has always been. C. S. Lewis likened it to a book that is lying on top of another. We say that the top book owes its position to the bottom one. It wouldn't be where it is without the one on the bottom. Now, if you can, imagine this relationship as always having been. There was never a time when the top book was not where it was, never a time when the bottom book was alone. This is what we mean when we speak of the Father as begetting the Son. The relationship of the first person of the Trinity to the second person is that of begetting." —The Forgotten Trinity, James R. White
Why do you keep bringing up Moses? The case for the deity of Christ is not based solely on the fact that he performed miracles. Moses didn't claim to be God. Jesus claimed to be God. Jesus' disciples claimed that Jesus was/is God. The Bible states that Jesus was/is God. Jesus' disciples proclaimed that he had risen from the dead. Do you think Jesus' disciples believed that he had risen from the dead or do you think they knew/believed he had not? If neither, what do you think they believed? Why would they believe that Jesus had risen from the dead if he had not? Why would they proclaim that Jesus had risen from the dead if they knew/believed that he had not? Why would they be willing to die for what they knew/believed to be a lie?
According to the Bible, only those who believe in Christ are children of God. "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, because God's wrath remains on him" (John 3:36). He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. —John 1:1-13 "For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, 'Abba, Father.' The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory." —Romans 8:15-17 The following explanation is by J. I. Packer. ADOPTION GOD MAKES HIS PEOPLE HIS CHILDREN "But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law . . . so that we might receive adoption as children." —Galatians 4:4-5 (NRSV) Paul teaches that the gift of justification (i.e., present acceptance by God as the world's Judge) brings with it the status of sonship by adoption (i.e., permanent intimacy with God as one's heavenly Father, Gal. 3:26; 4:4-7). In Paul's world, adoption was ordinarily of young adult males of good character to become heirs and maintain the family name of the childless rich. Paul however, proclaims God's gracious adoption of persons of bad character to become "heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ" (Rom 8:17). Justification is the basic blessing, on which adoption is founded; adoption is the crowning blessing, to which justification clears the way. Adopted status belongs to all who receive Christ (John 1:12). The adopted status of believers means that in and through Christ God loves them as he loves his only-begotten Son and will share with them all the glory that is Christ's now (Rom. 8:17, 38-39). Here and now, believers are under God's fatherly care and discipline (Matt. 6:26; Heb. 12:5-11) and are directed, especially by Jesus, to live their whole lives in light of the knowledge that God is their Father in heaven. They are to pray to him as such (Matt. 6:5-13), imitate him as such (Matt. 5:44-48; 6:12, 14-15; 18:21-35; Eph. 4:32-5:2), and trust him as such (Matt. 6:25-34), thus expressing the filial instinct that the Holy Spirit has implanted in them (Rom. 8:15-17; Gal. 4:6). Adoption and regeneration accompany each other as two aspects of the salvation that Christ brings (John 1:12-13), but they are tio be distinguished. Adoption is the bestowal of a relationship, while regeneration is the transformation of our moral nature. Yet the link is evident; God wants his children, whom he loves, to bear his character, and takes action accordingly. —Concise Theology, J. I. Packer
I wasn't really probing for your belief. That was clear from your post. I was showing how the problem you stated isn't necessarily a problem. Let me rephrase my question: If you believed that there was a Supreme Being that created mankind in His image, wouldn't you also expect the human beings He created to share some of His characteristics? If yes, then I don't know why that these thing (love, mercy, wrath) are a hang up. Although you may not personally accept it, there is another possible explanation for these characteristics of God than that people have created God in their image. And if there is a God who shares theses characteristics with mankind, that doesn't mean there aren't also things about Him that are beyond comprehension. I don't see how that's inconsistent. I have these qualities in common with my wife, and yet sometimes she's beyond comprehension. It just seems to me that this isn't a very big problem, unless you come to the discussion with the preconceived idea that there couldn't be a God like this in the first place. (In which case it's a moot point.) But that's not how you stated things in your post. You stated it as though this particular issue was a barrier to belief in God. I was merely pointing out that it doesn't have to be. I understand that you don't believe in God, and I didn't really expect my words to change that. I'm merely trying to participate in the exchange of ideas.
I understand exactly what you're trying to say, but it still makes no sense. Basically, you're repeating these things that you've memorized, and it's ok that they don't follow. Your logic doesn't follow. You're saying that Jesus was born of Mary, but he is eternal. You are saying that God constitutes of 3 parts, but they are all fully God. You also say God is one being. Someone MUST have explained this to you differently for you to understand before. This caan't be the way it's explained. God the Son was born at a certain time, when Mary gave birth to him. How exactly did he exist before that? Maybe his soul or his spirit or something existed, but how could he possibly exist before that? One more question. I'm asking this because I don't know: How come Mary was married but still a virgin? (Note: I know she was a virgin, just curious why)
I keep bringing up Moses because Jesus didn't show that he had powers any more than Moses did. Jesus claimed to be God in the bible. According to the Jews (not 100% sure on this), they believed he was practicing witchcraft and that his followers believed that he was God. According to Islam, he claimed to be a prophet. It's the miracles that are proof of divinity. If not for all the miracles, why would you believe that God exists? The sun, the stars, day and night, the tide...everything can and will be explained through science, except the miracles. No one can just claim to be God and have everyone believe it. If not for the miraculous prophecies, if not for the miraculous attributes and actions, no one would believe in Jesus. Why would they? What proof does he offer? Certainly, there are many wackos in history claiming to be God or something similar... But none could prove it, and because of this proof Christianity exists today. The thing is, you believe that Jesus is God, and you're willing to attribute anything to that. You immediately assumed that since he rose from the dead that it is because he's God. It's like a bad detective who will first decide who did it, then when he finds a gun immediately says it belongs to the person he suspected. You had faith in Christianity because you were born into it, so you started with "Jesus is God the Son". Then everything after that is attributed to the previous statement. In reality, you should go the other way around... you should be gathering this evidence and then conclude that Jesus is God the Son, and then cement your faith in the Christian religion. From what I've seen of th ebible, both ways will lead you to the same conclusion, but it certainly matters how you get to that conclusion.
Sane, I have given a few reasons to believe that Christianity is the truth, but it's ultimately a matter of faith. Believing that Jesus is God is ultimately a matter of faith. I know I can't say or do anything to convince someone to accept Christ. It is God who saves. God said, "You shall seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart" (Jeremiah 29:13). No one can have saving faith in Christ except by the grace of God. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). One way to test whether the Christian faith is the truth is to evaluate the reliablity of the Bible. The Bible states that Jesus rose from the dead. I have presented evidence to show that he did. EVIDENCE THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS THE CHRIST THE DEATH OF JESUS THE CHRIST THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS THE CHRIST THE DEITY OF JESUS THE CHRIST I have presented evidence to show that Jesus was crucified, that he died, and that he rose from the dead. I have presented evidence to show that Jesus claimed to be God. What evidence have you presented to show that: 1. Jesus was not crucified? 2. Jesus did not die? 3. Jesus did not rise from the dead? 4. Jesus did not claim to be God? Is it really reasonable for a Muslim to think that Jesus—a prophet sent by the God of Islam—would have let his disciples believe that he (Jesus) was God? A Muslim Jesus wouldn't have taught his disciples that he was God, and he wouldn't have allowed them to mistakenly believe he was God, either. You believe that God created the illusion of Christ's crucifixion and death, and you think that Jesus' disciples might have been hallucinating when they saw the risen Lord Jesus—on multiple occasions. I've already pointed out some of the problems with those ideas. Regarding Christ's crucifixion and death, the person on the cross said certain things only Jesus would have said. Regarding Christ's resurrection, it's unreasonable to think that Jesus' disciples saw the same hallucinations at the same time—on multiple occasions. The biblical accounts of the risen Lord Jesus' appearances don't allow for hallucinations, and they don't allow for the idea that the risen Lord Jesus did not appear to the disciples in bodily form. To what extent are you willing to rely on illusions and hallucinations to explain why Jesus' disciples believed what they did about Jesus' crucifixion, death, and resurrection? Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6). God is a God of truth. Would a God of truth want the world to believe, for hundreds of years, the lie that Christ died? Would a God of truth want the evidence to show that Christ was crucified, that Christ died, and that Christ rose from the dead? According to Islam, God created an illusion that led Jesus' disciples to believe that Jesus had really died on the cross. Then Jesus' disciples proclaimed that Jesus had risen from the dead, and they proclaimed that Jesus was God. They founded a false religion called Christianity—a religion based on lies. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).
"No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." —John 1:18
