Are you asking me if the world is as corrupt now as it was before religion? I think it was good for a while. But we're inching closer and closer back to a pre-religion state. Alcohol is like water, all types of people are having all kinds of sex, people are employing slaves, there are large-scale wars that are caused by conflicting religions, and a lack of ethics (varying definiteions of ethics) is apparently the only way someone can become succesful. Everything is done by force, and instead of everyone helping each other, people are trying to take each other over and dominate the world. It's scary if you think about it. It's as if we're going backwards, back to the age where all these things were common, they were ok, you could see it in front of you. This is why I believe the end of the world is nearing. Almost everyone's drifted in the wrong direction, and it's becoming more and mroe difficult to stay "decent" will all the outside influences. It's like we're ignoring God's message and becoming whatever we want to become. I hope that answers your question. I rambled on a bit there, but I tried to answer your question as clearly as possible.
You pretty much answered my question. With all your respect and of your All Mighty, He is not perfect. His weight loss regimen prescribed to the humanity hasnt worked so far. If anything, we all have gained quite a bit of weight. I guess my last statement in my first post really summed it up--He finally gave up after He sent his last prophet.
You'll have to forgive me Sane, I'm just a lowly ignorant Infidel who doesnt know any better when it comes to Islam. No need to be so pissed. If you don't agree with what I say, thats fine, why get so angry about it? And you wonder why most of us think you Muslims are terrorists at heart? Someone criticizes your religion and you go all apesh*t on them. Someone writes a book about your precious Muhammed and you put a bounty on his head. If I say stupid things, then just correct me, no need to blow up something. Yeah maybe it is extremists who only do that, but frankly I'm getting tired of moderate Muslims blaming all the stuff on the Extremists. You know what they say about mar1juana, it leads to more dangerous drugs.
If Jesus had just stayed dead, maybe his disciples would have realized that he had been no more than a human being. You believe God created the illusion of Jesus' death because the disciples had started to believe that Jesus was God. They must have really believed that Jesus was God when they saw that he had risen from the dead! At least you've acknowledged that the disciples believed Jesus was God. According to Islam, Jesus was a prophet sent by God. So Jesus definitely would have made it clear to his disciples that he wasn't God, right? Why would they think he was God then? Because that's what he taught them! See how it all makes sense? He wasn't just another prophet. He wasn't just another human being. He was/is God. He taught his disciples that he was God, and that's what they believed. According to the Bible, Jesus' disciples saw him after his death and resurrection. How do you explain that? And how do you reconcile your belief that Jesus was a prophet sent by God with your belief that Jesus' disciples believed he was God? Would you agree that a prophet sent by the God of Islam would have made it clear to his disciples that he wasn't God?
Brutal and Bloody BreakPoint with Charles Colson April 9, 2004 In the weeks since the release of Mel Gibson’s controversial film, The Passion of the Christ, critics have expressed outrage over what they claim is an overly bloody, brutal depiction of the sufferings of Christ. It makes you wonder if they understand what really took place during the scourging and crucifixion. Somebody who does know is former journalist Lee Strobel. A few years ago, Strobel researched one of the most persistent claims against Christianity: Did Jesus survive the scourging and crucifixion? Was it possible, he wondered, to examine 2,000-year-old medical evidence and determine if Jesus really died on the cross? Well, to get an expert opinion, Strobel went to Dr. Alexander Metherell, a research scientist. Metherell has studied the medical data concerning Christ’s death, and he’s convinced there’s no way anyone could have survived what the Romans put him through. First, there was the flogging. Soldiers used whips of braided leather thongs. The metal balls woven into the lash caused deep bruises, which broke open during the torture. Often the victim’s back, in such a beating, was so shredded that his spine was exposed. Those who didn’t die from the flogging went into hypovolemic shock, brought on by blood loss. There would be a loss of blood pressure, leading to faintness and collapse. And the loss of fluids would result in tremendous thirst. The Gospels indicate that Jesus was in shock as He carried His cross to Calvary: He collapsed in the road, and Simon of Cyrene had to carry the cross for Him. Later, Jesus said, “I thirst.” And there was the agony of the crucifixion itself. The Romans drove spikes through the wrists and feet of Jesus—spikes that traveled through the median nerves. This caused such enormous pain that a new word was invented to describe it: excruciating, literally meaning, “out of the cross.” Metherell believes that Jesus, like other crucifixion victims, eventually died of asphyxiation. The stresses on the muscles and diaphragm put the chest in the inhaling position; in order to exhale, the victim had to push up on his feet to ease the tension in the muscles for just a moment. It would be enormously painful, and exhaustion would eventually set in. As his breathing slowed, the victim would go into respiratory acidosis, leading to an irregular heartbeat and eventual cardiac arrest. Then, in the case of Jesus, to ensure that He was dead, a Roman soldier thrust a spear into His side. The flogging, the massive blood loss, the shock, the crucifixion, the stabbing: Could Jesus have suffered all of this and survived? Not a chance, Metherell told Strobel. http://www.pfm.org/BPtemplate.cfm?S...EMPLATE=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm
It wasn't meant to "work" if that's what you're saying, the Qura'an predicted that this would happen. Humans are so far from perfection, there's no way it could "work". Why do we drink alcohol and do drugs when we know it's not good for us? We know it scientifically, and pretty much all religions prohibit them. Law prohibits almost all drugs as well. But we just don't understand. To hope that the plan "works" is to hope that a rat will develop the cure to cancer.
You're absolutely right, you DON'T know, and you KNOw that you don't know. I responded to you properly in your first post, and all you commented on was my apology? You have nothing to say. Everything you're saying is BS, and if I thought you believed it, I wouldn't really care. What bothered me is that you know all that stuff's not true, and you're stating it in a very disrespectful way. Muhammad is precious. Let's see how Christians would react if I wrote a book about the equivalent of Muhammad PBUH in the Christian religion. You can be as critical as you want about Islam, and I would debate with you. But I think everyone here agrees that you are talking out of your ass. Forgive you? I'm not into bs apologies hotballa.
I'll be totally honest with you, I don't know exactly for what reason a New Testament was written. I've read the definitions, and I've heard the probably false other views about why it was written. If the reason cited is that it was inspired by God, then I'll have to look further into that. How did God inspire it? What was changed in the New Testament? What I've heard about the New Testament, and this may be false of course, is that they wrote a New testament to deal with the changing times and with the difficulty of following the original Bible in the newer world.
I could answer your first question right now, but I'd probably be able to answer it much better if you could show me some quotes where it says they saw Jesus rising from the dead, how it happened, how many people saw it, etc.. Second question, yes Islam says Jesus is a prophet. A human being like me and you, but with a mission from God. Humans make mistakes. The disciples were humans, and Jesus was a human being. There was room for misinterpretation. There is something like 2 or 3 quotes in the Bible where Jesus apparently claims that he's God, but this is with 99.5% textual accuracy as well. Then you have the whole master/teacher debate. Prophets are teachers but not masters, so which did he say? I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe Jesus didn't make it clear enough (less likely) or they didn't understand him properly (more likely). Maybe they were in shock at seeing all the miracles he performed? There could be a number of reasons. What proves to you that Jesus is God exactly? His miracles? Moses split the ocean. Who's to say Moses isn't God? Moses predicted Jesus coming to earth. Why don't the Jews believe that Jesus is God then, if he clearly said it to them (According to Christianity)? I'm pretty sure there were cases during Muhammad PBUH's tenure where people may have believed he was more than just a prophet. Islam was a bit more clear on this subject however (as Rocket104 posted) with the "If you worshipped Muhammad, he is dead, if you worhip God, he will never die" quote. KB, I need you to look at this from my point of view just like I'm looking at it from your point of view. Islam says that he wasn't "resurrected", so to speak, while Christianity does. So, this means either the Bible is inaccurate or the Qura'an is inaccurate1. Which side will I take? Prophets are not sent by the way, they're appointed. To say they're sent is implying that they are not human like me and you and are from somewhere above or something.
Christianity has been criticized many many times over the years. Jesus has been turned into a punchline by many comedians. Recent book called Da Vinci Code accusses Jesus of having a relationship with Mary magdalene, The last temptation of Christ by Martin Scorsesee implied Jesus had doubts about his own divinity. Christians protested, but I didnt hear of any million dollar bounties on Martin Scorsesee's head. He can still goto church and not worry about getting shot or blown up. Salman Rushdie on the other hand, well let's just say he would have to be a little more careful. As for the forgiving thing, it's called sarcasm. See how your reaction is to a little joke? You just reaffirm my theory about "moderate" Islam being the mar1juana to Extreme Islamists crack.
"Muslims believe that God sent his messengers and prophets to all people beginning with Adam (Adam) and including Noah (Nuh), Abraham (Ibrahim), Lot (Lut), Ishmael (Isma'il), Isaac (Ishaq), Jacob (Ya'qub), Joseph (Yusuf), Job (Ayb), Moses (Musa), Aaron (Harun), David (Dawud), Solomon (Sulayman), Elias (Ilyas), Jonah (Yunus), John the Baptist (Yahya), and Jesus ('Isa); peace be upon them all." http://www.islam101.com/discover_islam/3.html 009.033 It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). [emphasis added] 021.007 Before thee, also, the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message. [emphasis added] 048.028 It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion: and enough is Allah for a Witness. [emphasis added] 062.002 It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;- [emphasis added] http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/9.htm http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/21.htm http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/48.htm http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/62.htm
The Bible "See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty. - Malachi 3:1 In Malachi 3:1, the messenger "who will prepare the way before me" is John the Baptist. The "messenger of the covenant" is Jesus Christ.
The Bible doesn't state that there were people who saw Jesus "rising" from the dead. It states that there were people who saw Jesus after he had risen from the dead. Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early on the first day of the week and Jesus appeared to her. The Bible states that Jesus' disciples saw him after his death and resurrection. John 20:19-21 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." John 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" John 21:1-14 Afterward Jesus appeared again to his disciples, by the Sea of Tiberias. It happened this way: Simon Peter, Thomas (called Didymus), Nathanael from Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two other disciples were together. "I'm going out to fish," Simon Peter told them, and they said, "We'll go with you." So they went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing. Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus. He called out to them, "Friends, haven't you any fish?" "No," they answered. He said, "Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some." When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish. Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord!" As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, "It is the Lord," he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water. The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards. When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread. Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you have just caught." Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn. Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord. Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.
Sane, The New Testament includes the Gospels. Would you agree or disagree with the following statements? "Muslims believe in the books of the previous prophets including the "Torah" which was sent to Moses, the "Zaboor" (Psalms) which were given to David, the "Injeel" (Gospel) which was given to Jesus, and the Qur'an which was given to Muhammad. However, Muslims are told that the previous scriptures were tampered with by mankind and the Bible should only be accepted in as far as it is confirmed by the Qur'an. It is to be treated with respect, however any statements which clearly oppose those of the Qur'an are to be rejected as the work of mankind." [emphasis added]
KB - Thanks for switching to red. The Malacai quote - is that from the Old Testament? Are the references to John and Jesus added by you / Christians to explain the (believed) link between the Jewish Messiah and Jesus? Also, your last post with the Injeel comment - I don't understand where you're leading with that. Doesn't the last part of the sentence indicate that there are exceptions to belief in the Christian Gospels?
Rocket104, The verse from Malachi is from the Old Testament. Malachi was written about 400 years before Christ was born. Malachi 3:1 "See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty. Matthew 11:7-11 As John's disciples were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: "What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind? If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings' palaces. Then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written: " 'I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.' I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." John 3:26-28 They came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him." To this John replied, "A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, 'I am not the Christ but am sent ahead of him.' "
This is why the Qura'an should never be translated. Aside from Adam and Eve, no one was sent from the heavens.
