Giddy, again, it's not my position, but that of the people who support the violence. Honestly, if you applied your interpretation of what I wrote to U.S. History, any historian that tried to address the motivations of slavery would, according to you, be in favor of slavery. Once again, here is the passage I wrote... Please identify the subject of the above sentence. (Hint: It is not rimrocker.) I am not voicing a personal opinion but instead am assigning motivation to Rabid opponents. You're trying to tell me I think something when I couldn't be more clear about being against it.
Wingnut... More info on the above 1996 arrest... http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/5/31/737357/--Suspect-Identified-in-Tiller-Assassination
I don't pretend to a Biblical scholar, but I do study it a fair amount. I can't recall a single scripture that would justify murder. Jesus himself never took violent actions against the great multitude of sinners of his day. This just doesn't make sense to me. It saddens me greatly that people resort to violence, heck even verbal abuse saddens me.
It had been a long time since this sort of crap happened....it's absolutely 100% indefensible...and I'm so sad it happened again.
More like Total Nut. Sounds like one of those brainwashing cults with delusions of making the world more suitable to their own tastes by any means.
Agreed Max. I thought the crazies learned in the 90s that this sort of crap only hurt their cause and that it gained them no favor with Christ. We've seen real progress on the abortion issue, despite what people on the right may think. To revert to this... It hurts me personally as a Christian. God does not favor this sort of behavior. Any Christian who feels "good" about this act should begin a long session of soul searching. Christ preached forgiveness and acceptance, even of sinners. People who do this sort of thing in the name of God are a disgrace to my faith. "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10 KJV) "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23 KJV) "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." (John 8:7) The way I read the Bible, there isn't a man, woman, or child among us with justification to cast the damning stones against another for their sins, no matter how grave. If we were all murdered when we did something that was an affront to God, there wouldn't be a single one of us left.
Your writing is not that clear. It reads more like a declaration with a comment attached. I can see your interpretation, but it's not the only one to draw from the words you wrote. I don't mean to misrepresent your position. I was just lovingly chastising your over-simplification. You interpret their motivations for them as being ... solely...political. They view their primary mission as saving lives. The doctor is just collateral damage in the means to that end. Yeah, it's wrong but their is a pragmatic purpose to their desperation.
"Children are a gift from the Lord; they are a reward from him." (Psalm 127:3) "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you, that their angels in heaven continually behold the face of My Father who is in heaven" -Matthew 18:10 "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe" -Exodus 21:22-25 -while these previous passages are vauge, I think they at least shed light on God's view towards children and the unborn. A few verses that seem to point to when God suggests life begins: "Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb? -Job 31:15 "Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother's breasts. Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb" -Psalm 22:9-10 "For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from Thee, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them" -Psalm 139:13-16 "Thus says the LORD who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you, `Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen" -Isaiah 44:2 "Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone" Isaiah 44:24 and to quote Richard Deem: All of the above verses tell us God considers us to be human before we are born, but they don't answer the question of when we actually become so. I propose there is a way to know what God considers the latest point in development at which we must consider a fetus to be a living human. Even before God gave Moses the law, when He gave Noah and his family all the animals for food (in addition to the plants), He told them, "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood" (Genesis 9:4). At the same time, God gave the law and penalty for murder (described as the shedding of "man's blood"). Therefore, God considers blood to be the basis for life and the shedding of human blood, which results in death, to be murder. Science tells us that the heart of the human fetus begins to form 18 days after conception. There is a measurable heart beat 21-24 days after conception. Since blood is flowing at this point, it is likely that blood formation begins well before day 21 (I could find no reference for the date at which blood formation begins). Therefore, this represents the latest date at which we must consider the fetus to be human (according to biblical standards), which is only 7-10 days after a women would expect to begin her menses. Most women have cycles that can vary by this amount, and therefore do not discover they are pregnant until after this point. For all practical purposes, from a biblical perspective, abortion at any point must be considered murder by Bible-believing Christians. Among the non-canonical writings of (probably) the first century are the Didache, the Epistle of Barnabas and the Apocalypse of Peter. The Didache states: "Thou shalt not slay thy child by abortion, nor kill that which is begotten". In the epistle of Barnabas we read: "Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born." Both documents consider abortion murder. In both writings condemnation of abortion is linked to infanticide. The Apocalypse of Peter, much respected among early Christians, paints a vivid picture of the unborn tormenting the women who caused abortion.
You misinterpreted; one might argue it difficult to convince said parties to come and recieve "confession, contrition and redemption" when outward actions are objectively hostile to their lifestyles. I could go on, but I think this topic has been discussed here many, many times. I'm not sure if there exists benefit to rehashing it again.
As Billy Sunday allegedly said, "Just because you stand in a garage, that does not make you a car..." You take a broad swipe at all Christians when this is but one guy with a suspect grasp on reality.
A fair point. However, I think it would be perfectly fair of me to also state that, generically speaking, most christians are not supportive of a gay or pro-choice lifestyle. This may not necessarily manifest outward hostility a la our gun-toting example from the OP, or even hostility of the "peaceful protest" caliber. Regardless, the sentiment alone provides for some curious introspection in regards to both christian outreach methodologies, and jesus' teaching. I guess I'm not interested (not today, anyhow ) in picking a fight with you about what can or can not be generically stated about christianity and christians. I think instead I'll just summarize myself by saying that I think much of the christian approach to gay rights and abortion is fundamentally flawed in respect to the very religion they are intending to portray/defend, and furthermore that none of that really even matters insomuch as this nation is supposed to be secular.
Me neither! Got too much on my plate today. I can agree with you on the homosexual marriage issue (and I'm a guy who works in Christian marriage outreach-- can't wait for someone to ask me that question...) I see a complete and total disconnect though with the pro-Choice position; I see absolutely nothing Christian about that... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It is hard for us humans to approve of everything-- maybe impossible. Don't answer (except in your mind), but what do you disapprove of? Does that invalidate you as a believer or just indicate your imperfection? I heard a speaker talking about "Love and Judgement" and am trying to get to the book. You either "love" someone or you "judge" them-- which is wrong so the author says. I can only imagine how hard it would be for anyone truly to get to that point....
hmm. well I didn't write it, although I find some truths in it......I WOULD defend it, had you not completely failed at comprehending the quote.
