Not all black people cry about it and not all black people demand reparations. Those that do, however, often recieve more media attention due to the historical relationship in America between the "black and white races." It's not that some of what you say doesn't have merit. But you've taken it way to far to the extreme without any proof to back up your claims, other than a few radical members from one party or another.
How's this for constructive. http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n6p19_reparations.html No End in Sight Germany Has Paid Out More Than $61.8 Billion in Third Reich Reparations Since 1951 Germany has paid more than 102 billion marks, about $61.8 billion at 1998 exchange rates, in federal government reparation payments to Israel and Third Reich victims. In addition, Germans have paid out billions in private and other public funds, including about 75 million marks ($49 million) by German firms in compensation to wartime forced laborers, the Welt am Sonntag newspaper reported recently. These figures are based on calculations by the German Finance Ministry, the influential paper said. Of the total, Germany has paid out 78.4 billion marks ($47 billion) on the basis of the 1965 Federal Restitution Law (BEG) to persons, especially Jews, who had been persecuted during the Third Reich era on the basis of race, religion, origin or ideology. While most of those who were alive during the Second World War are now dead, in recent years Germany was still paying out some 1.25 billion marks (about $75 million) to 106,000 pensioners in Israel, the United States and other countries on the basis of the 1965 Restitution Law. A substantial portion of Germany's reparations payments have been to the "Jewish Claims Conference" for Jews who had persecuted by the Third Reich. Recipients include former forced laborers and concentration camp internees, as well as individuals deprived of rights or property under the Nazis. Based in New York City, the Jewish Claims Conference (JCC) has operated for decades as a kind of supra-national governmental agency for Jews around the world. Between 1992 and July 1998, the German federal government paid out 1.1 billion marks (about $647 million) to the JCC. During the first half of 1998, it made available 378 million marks (about $222 million) to the JCC in special one-time restitution payments for Jews who had persecuted by the Third Reich, according to a German government report issued on September 29, 1998. The JCC distributed up to 5,000 marks each to individual claimants. In recent years Germany has paid out nearly 1.8 billion marks on the basis of special bilateral agreements concluded in 1991 and 1993 with Poland and three successor states of the former Soviet Union -- the Russian Federation, Ukraine and Belarus (White Russia) -- even though in 1953 Poland and the Soviet Union each renounced any further reparations payments from Germany. Because there's no sign that German reparations payments will stop anytime soon, the Welt am Sonntag wonders if they might be "bottomless." In coming years, Finance Ministry specialists estimate, Germany will pay out an additional 24 billion marks (about $14.4 billion at a recent exchange rate) in Third Reich reparations. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Sources: J. Kummer, "Wird die Wiedergutmachung ein Fass ohne Boden?" Welt am Sonntag, Oct. 4, 1998, p. 54; Reuters' dispatch, Bonn, Oct. 3, 1998; The Week in Germany, published by the German Information Center in New York, Oct. 2, 1998; Focus on "German Restitution for National Socialist Crimes," May 1995 special report by the German Information Center; "Milliardenloch Wiedergutmachung," D. National-Zeitung [Munich], Nov. 20, 1998, p. 7. See also: "West Germany's Holocaust Payoff to Israel and World Jewry," in the Summer 1988 Journal, pp. 243-250.)
So after a month, you're still trying to argue with someone who elicits such juvenile responses from you...? Have you ever considered that maybe arguing with her is a waste of time? Why is trying to "win" an argument with Princess so important to you?
I can't say for the media, but Murray was more criticized by scientists for the way he interpreted his data. It sells books to try to confirm minute genetic differences in humans, but the fact it is by a landslide that people vary far more within groups than between them--whether in certain intelligence dimensions (further there is no consensus on how many types of intelligences they are or how to measure them unbiasedly--thus any claim of "established racial differences in intelligence" by an intellectually honest and balanced researcher must be prefaced by this) or other characteristics people differ in like athletic abilities or personality. Most all human variation can be explained in individual differences, not group differences, but it is the latter claims that line the pockets or bring fame that otherwise wouldn't be there to guys like Murray. I don't think too many scientists wanted to censor Murray, but he surely understood criticism comes along with the territory. Now this is just my 2 cents here, but given that people like Norman Einstein and Nelson Mandela are not of Asian decent, I don’t think any racial group has a quarantine in intelligence or genius.
Looks like everyone is getting reparations. Hmm.... http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9806/12/japanese.reparations/ U.S. to pay Japanese Latin Americans held during WWII Clinton apologizes for 'prejudice,' 'wartime hysteria' June 12, 1998 LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- The U.S. Justice Department announced Friday that it would formally apologize to more than 2,200 people of Japanese ancestry who were forcibly removed from Latin American countries and interned in the United States during World War II. And under the lawsuit settlement announced Friday, surviving internees can receive $5,000 each in compensation. About 600 already have made claims for reparations, and government officials believe perhaps as many as 700 more are also eligible. "I offer a sincere apology for the actions that unfairly denied you fundamental liberties during World War II," reads a letter of apology from President Clinton, which was released at a news conference in Los Angeles Friday. "We understand that our nation's actions were rooted in racial prejudice and wartime hysteria, and we must learn from the past and dedicate ourselves as a nation to renewing and strengthening equality, justice and freedom," Clinton wrote. "It has been very difficult to relive the horrible memory that we have been trying to forget, but I feel that for this cause, reliving this pain was worth it," said Carmen Mochizuki, one of those interned. "I feel a sense of closure and peace from the process." Internees exchanged for Americans held by Japan The U.S. government has never officially explained why 2,200 Latin Americans -- about 80 percent of them from Peru -- were taken from their homes and brought to the United States. However, it acknowledges that part of the motivation was to exchange them for American citizens being held by Japan. An estimated 800 detainees were forcibly sent to Japan. Of the rest, 271 stayed in the United States after the war and became U.S. citizens. The rest returned to Latin America or post-war Japan. During the war years, the government also detained U.S. citizens of Japanese descent living on the West Coast and sent them to internment camps further inland. Under a 1988 law, those surviving internees were given $20,000 in compensation and an apology. In 1996, a class action suit was filed on behalf of the internees from Latin America, asking for equal treatment under the 1988 law. Some of them expressed unhappiness Friday that the settlement will provide them with less money than the amount received by U.S. citizens of Japanese descent.
I don't think anyone on this BBS is as qualified as I am to recognize juvenile or "assholic" behavior. God knows I've done enough of it myself. My advice to you-- and anyone else that finds themselves infuriated at Princess-- would be to just ignore her. The more you argue, the happier it makes her-- that seems to be what she's looking for, an excuse to try to validate her opinions through argument.
Great idea make us pay for crimes against dead people committed by dead people Big difference from the reparations being paid in those articles.
Fair enough. But does that explain why Jason Sehorn is the only starting white cornerback in the nfl? There are poverty stricken whites as well. Should we expect them to be as motivated as poverty stricken blacks? Whites still make up the majority of the U.S., thus, it would be safe to say that in sheer #'s, there are more poor white people than there are poor black people. BTW, I do agree that in the big picture, we are more alike than different. There are differences, and certain physical characteristics are inherent in certain ethnic groups. For example, I'm Asian. I have black, straight coarse hair and a broad nose. You will find more Asians with that description rather than whites. There really isn't anything wrong with it.
Is there any valid evidence that blacks do not make race an issue? If so, I'd be interested to see it. Sorry if I don't take your word for it. But seeing as you never listen to me, I feel I can ask for proof. And I sincerely hope that you all don't think I mean "all" black people. Everything I say only applies to some. If I thought "all" I would say "all."
No it was actually a comparison of Duke and Jackson. Duke does while Jackson does not, hence not a good comparison in terms of their views. True, but you referred to Jackson in the statement that I quoted, not Duke. So I only responded to Jackson. Fair enough? We've looked at it. Your insinuations are wrong. End of story. Still waiting for your proof... Cool then I guess I'll feel free to add modifiers and adjectives to any and all of your comments as I see fit. Thanks. You already have and you still do. I know how Jews have never demanded and received reparations. That's never happened. I guess black people just need to stop crying huh? No, I just think that people need to be responsible for their own actions and choices. Asking for reparations is not the way to make yourself equal. It's an issue that infuriates whites because we didn't do anything. The ends do not justify the means as you're of course inferring. Nice try... Is this your opinion or fact? Again, I didn't say the means were right. All I'm saying is that it happened and as a result, blacks now live in a free country. Instead of comdemning history, accept it and what it did for you. You're right, there have been few things more responsible on this board than your rampant contradictions from post to post and frequent references to "well that's what my professor said" as evidence to substantiate your claims. You think that everything I say is my own opinion and I am the only person in the world stupid enough to think the way I do. I refer to my professors because they have influenced, changed or reinforced what I think and believe. As far as others getting reparations, the people getting them are still alive. None of the slaves are still alive nor are the people who owned them.
Some good points. My guess for the above is NFL cornerbacks as a group are not all that different than 100 (or 50) meter sprinters. You have to be elite in a very narrow range of athletic abilities (killer initial burst of speed) to be an NFL CB. Now look at NFL linebackers where a broader range of skills are needed to excel, 3 of the best are of three different racial groups (Lewis, Urlacher and Seau). If you look at OLs I would think you would find even more variability. As for the latter, I agree it is not just poverty. And you are right on the money that there are more poor whites than poor AA in USA. But you factor in there are more AA per capita in poverty, that most of AA role models in the media are athletes, that poor AA are more in urban areas versus poor Whites in rural areas (worse athletic competition and fewer facilities for the latter), and perhaps BB is a larger part to AA youth culture (as soccer is to most of the world), that all could help explain the differences. gr-8, I am not saying this about you, it just concerns me when others take the .1% difference between the groups and decide to talk about that more than the 99.9 that just reflect differences across all humans. It is just so much easier to focus on stereotypes—some of which might have a kernal of truth and many that do not. People really gravitate toward seeing themselves and their group as more different then they typically are. On the reparation issue: I actually don't think it is particularly helpful because it is backward focused versus present or future focused. I think the larger issue is not the acts of ancestors on issues such as slavery, but the fact there is discrimination and racism today that are remnants from it that many have trouble acknowledging still exist.
As usual, I agree with my man Brian Kagy. Why is it okay to say that blacks are better than whites at the "speed" positions in football, and the 100 meter dash, but its not okay to say that whites are smarter than blacks? Any excuse like "white people are richer, thus smarter", I scoff at. It works both ways fellas.
As one of those who brought up this question in this thread, I thought about it. I have come to the conclusion that it is NOT okay to say it because it can serve to re-inforce racial prejudice and give dumb racist people an excuse to make racist statements and pretend to be able to support them by facts. EVEN IF white or asian people were, on average, smarter than blacks (which I don't think could ever be proven) it should NOT be pointed out - athletic ability IS a far less sensitive subject. Any difference, which I am sure could not be scientifically proven anyway, would be minuscule anyway and could be explained by a million things other than genetics. Being white, I don't care when someone says "blacks have more muscles", but if I were black, it would bother the hell out of me if someone could take some pseudo-scientific evidence and say "You are dumber than me because I have read that black people are dumber than whites."
This is the key point in the discussion, and why all racists are mindless idiots. I'm white, but I match the description earlier by OJ of a black stereotype (long legs and arms, short trunk, dense bones, etc for my height.) Nobody yet has mentioned what Kareem said in one of his books about blacks excelling in sports. He believed that the largest differences exist in the African gene pool - from pygmies to extremely small people, from West African sprinters to Kenyan runners. Therefore, he believed that you would also find the smartest and the stupidest people within the African gene pool as well. I'm not saying that because Kareem said it that it's true...but it bears thinking about. As far as intelligence goes, it is such a difficult thing to measure that we're probably a long way away from any reliable qualitative measurements of it. People don't worship intelligence the same way that they do athleticism, so we don't have any competitions set up that really show the MVPs of intelligence. In addition I believe in the theory of differing intelligences: that is, there are such things as athletic geniuses such as Gretzky or Jordan, artistic geniuses, mathematical geniuses such as Newton, and even political geniuses. Clinton (who I despise) was said to have amazing charisma and charm. Is he a genius? That's what makes it so difficult to determine who is smarter, especially after environment comes into play.
Very well said. The difference between athletic ability and education is large, IMO. As far as genetics go: take two people, put them through the same kind of athletic activities/health practices through their lives, and you still may have one who can jump higher and run faster and is an ideal NBA kid. Take two, put them through the same high-level education, supportive families and job opportunities, and even if one has a higher IQ, chances are they will both do pretty well in life regardless.
Ha... heehehe... that's pretty funny. Dead people have families who are impacted by the treatment of their loved ones and certainly impacted by their deaths. Dead or alive ain't got a damn thing to do with reparations, it's a cop out. I think your nitpicking over dead or alive is indicative of the double standard in effect for blacks which begs the question, why in the hell did it take Germany about 5 years to begin paying billions in reparations to Jews while the US hasn't done a damn thing in the last few hundred years to pay reparations to blacks? Is the apathy of the US government now the responsibility of deceased slaves? How preposterous is that? Japanese-Americans were interned for a period of several years and get reparations with an apology while the families of blacks enslaved for their entire friggin lives get squat. That's the good old USA for ya I guess.
Good to compare WWII to slavery and the Civil War. There isn't a 100 year gap in between those events. Apologies get made in modern times so quickly because human rights and freedoms are a huge issue. People today recognize when mistakes are made. Back then, many people did not think slavery was a mistake. Even Lincoln, who was against slavery, called it a "necessary evil." If they didn't think it was completely wrong, then why apologize for it? Slavery existed during a time when human rights were not an issue. When slavery ended, I doubt the government even considered making apologies. It just wasn't something that happened. They probably thought that fighting a war about the cause was enough. The Civil War was fought in part to free the slaves. Hundreds of thousands of men lost their lives fighting for this cause. We're sorry our ancestors died to free your ancestors. Oh, and do you think that the white people who were slaves deserve reparations for it as well? Believe it or not, there were white slaves, especially among Irish-Americans. And America wasn't the only country to have slaves then either. Do they all need to apologize too? Why is it just America and why is it just for black people? And why exactly does anyone owe money for something that no one alive today had any control over? Because racism still exists? Not a good answer. Racism would exist with or without the history of slavery.
I'm glad you find it so funny The fact IS slavery was abolished some 140 years agnly a small minority of white Americans owned slaves, and others gave their lives to free them.My family never owned a slave and several lost their lives fighting for their freedom.Am I,a descendant of Irish imigrants,held somehow accountable simply because of my skin color ?. America is a multi-ethnic nation and most Americans have no connection to slavery.To expect ALL Americans held responsible for slavery is ludicrous. IMO it's nothing more than "looking to get paid" but it really doesn't matter what I or you think ...because it will never happen.
