Chris Kaman: " Pau Gasol doesn't deserve to be in the All-Star Game."

I was agreeing with him.

 

Gasol has played 450 less minutes, and according to basketball-reference he still has accumulated nearly twice the win shares based on his total numbers (4.7 to 2.4). And his team is 22-4 this year with him in the lineup.

I'd go with Gasol if picking on merit.

 

Kaman is right. He just hasn't played in enough games this season, Gasol would easily be an easily selection for the All-Star reserve if he did because everybody knows how good he plays when he does play. I remember earlier in the season he had a stretch where he was getting 20/20s almost every night. Trust me, I'd know because I have him on my fantasy team. He's a beast, everybody knows it. Top 3 Power Forward in the game, but Kaman is right he shouldn't be in the all-star game this season.

 

Props to Kaman for wanting some integrity in the ASG, but it's really just a popularity contest. There are lots of deserving players who don't make it and several undeserving players who do. I don't see this trend changing anytime soon.

 

So easy, Kaman can do it :grin:

 

Jeez are you kidding me? Win shares to back up your point? Maybe, I'm one of the few people here, but I prefer keeping it simple with basic stats. Maybe using splits every now and then, but I don't prefer talking about offensive rating, win shares, PER and that crap. Based on your Win-Share logic, David Lee would be better than Carmelo Anthony.

 

its true pau doesnt he missed like over half of the first half of the season

 

Kaman needs to stop talking *****.

Gasol has a ring, Kaman doesn't. Granted, it's not Gasol who deserves credit for the championship last season, but it's not like Kaman or the Clippers will ever get a ring.

 

Most of these advanced measurements are nothing more than permutations based on the "basic" stats you so love, esp. PER and O Rating. They should actually help you understand what these stats mean. Just because someone has higher stats doesn't mean he's better, things like the pace of their system, and whether the guy has the ball a lot tend to distort stats. Advanced stats like PER are there to help eliminate some of the noise that make stats deceiving to the casual observer.

Based on crap like Winshares, Battier has won more games for the Rox than Gay has for memphis, and I happen to agree.

 

Sun Yue and Adam Morrison got a ring too, so that means they are better than Kaman?

 

For speaking his mind which is at worse reasonable?

I am confused

 

I think Kaman is right. And he did mention Zach Randolph who deserved to be an All-star much more than Gasol.

 

Which basis stats tell you that Kaman has "better numbers" than Gasol? Gasol has higher FG%, FT% (and he gets to the line more frequently), OR, DR, AST, STL, BLK, and he has less TO and PF. Is that basic enough?

(1) That isn't true.
(2) The argument isn't simply that Gasol has more win shares. It is that he has twice the win shares while playing 400 less minutes. See the difference?

Win shares is one way of looking at "numbers". PER is another. +/- is another. Win total is another. NBA EFF is another. All favor Gasol.

But I'm not wedded to any particular system of assessing the numbers. If enough of them favor one player over another, I consider that a compelling numbers-based argument in their favor.

 

Both Pau and Kaman deserve to be in cavemen commercials...

 

You aren't factoring the rest of the team members that he plays with which I think is an elementary mistake on your part. Pau is undoubtedly more talented than Kaman,but I can bet you his win shares would be looking very different if he were playing for the Clippers instead of the Lakers.
Pau's performance for this year would be closer to his Grizzlies days. He has contributed to the Lakers' wins but he fits in with the supporting class.

 

The Clippers (19-23 without their best player) and Grizzlies (23-19, half game behind rockets) are no longer crappy teams.

 

Pau just got kamed on

 

Probably right, but Kaman didn't say that his numbers are better than Gasol's if they switch teams.

Take a look at his numbers in Memphis before he got traded to the Lakers. In the 06/07 and 07/08 seasons when Memphis was awful, Gasol had 6.9 win shares in 2133 minutes played and 3.9 win shares in 1433 minutes played. That comes to 10.8 win shares over 3566 minutes. Kaman would be on pace to accumulate 6.2 win shares in those minutes. Still a big difference there.

Do you agree with Kaman when he said he has better numbers than Gasol? We don't have to look at it in terms of win shares, but I'm just not sure what he's talking about.

 

Kaman's right. Gasol shouldn't be an All-Star this year. He's missed over 20 games and there are players having much better seasons.

 

I should have made it clear that I don't think Kaman should be an all-star either. Neither he nor Pau have done well enough IMO.