I don't see them as similar in kind, for the reasons I've stated. So I don't see them as "as bad". What a telling sign is to me is that Lott's comments were so clearly over the line as to incite bipartisan rancor. (again, the prime movers howling for his demise were right wing bloggers worried about having him be the head of the party in the senate) Dodd's comments are only outrageous if you superimpose several layers of hidden meaning onto them. Tellingly, the only expressions of outrage seem to be from the usual right wing suspects. Also, their records matter. Is Dodd a member of a racist organization like Trent Lott, the Council of Conservative Citizens, formerly known as the White Citizens Council? Does Dodd share Lott's record on civil rights?
Because I wasn't in control of big media. Please don't confuse me with the FranchiseBlades and SamFishers of the BBS. I'm not engaged in a partisan war.
My war isn't partisan, it's just anti-Bush administration. I will agree from time to time with certain Republicans, and often with Democrats. But I am most definitely opposed to this administration and what they've done.
apropos this thread, "what they've done" was displayed quite eloquently in the 9/11 hearings this morning. never before has a black woman wielded the kind of influence that condi does. i'd go so far as to argue that never has a woman of any race, , including Hilary, wielded the kind of influence on american policy that she does.
Pretty weak, if I do say so myself. Dodd was talking about Robert Byrd of today while Lott spoke of Thurman of the past.
Dodd and Lott harkening back to the country's racist past, the Bush admin displaying the county's color-blind ideal.
So they're for afirmative action now? What does this mean? You're happy Condoleezza Rice was hired because she's african american? You're glad they "didnt hold it against her" ? If you were "color blind" you wouldnt have brought this up because you wouldnt have noticed, hence the blind part.
What?!? As for power over the general populace, Oprah wields power FAR in excess of Rice, as does Janet Jackson and any number of popular figures. As for power over shaping government policy, I would say Carol Moseley Braun and any other number of black female legislators surpasses Rice as well. If you disagree, please give one significant policy that Rice bears direct responsiblity for that has been implemented. As far as I know, most policy decisions are made by Rumsfeld & Cheney. Other than briefing the president and taking public heat...I really don't know what Condoleeza Rice has done in office for the past 4 years.
oy, the left's favorite bete-noire, a conservative minority...please, while you and sam are building straw men, please don't put words in my mouth. rice, like rumsfeld, powell, and everyone else in this admin, and the previous one for that matter, was hired for her abilities. her color, accept as a maker for how far this country has come, is irrelevant. her color is remarkable for the same reason that jackie robinson's is- because it's a sign of the progress this country has made collectively moving away from its tragic past on racial issues.
So basso what is her ability? what has she done that has impressed you that Stephen Hadley hasn't? Seriously, I want to know. Most people (Bob woodard, Richard Clarke, whoever) who have published insider accounts of the White House have generally stated that Rummy & Cheney pretty much run foreign policy and national security. What has she done?
As for her power, she had a phone meeting or meeting(I can't remember which) with media heads and asked them to not show video clips of Osama Bin Laden. The reason being, that they might garnish more support for him, as well as the possibility that the video's might contain messages to Al-Qaeda cells. The media groups all complied with her requests. That certainly is power. Whether it was her own initiative that prompted the request can be argued. I disagree with the media outlets that submitted. First of all it's censorship by the government. The media should be able to show the video's in their entirety with all the counter points being made by members of the U.S. govt. and folks who disagreed with Bin Laden from, perhaps, other Muslims Clerics. There certainly were plenty out there disagreeing with Osama. But, anway show the stupid clips and let the people make up there own mind. The second point that he was sending encoded messages were ridiculous. The cells all have had internet access. It would have been very easy for Al-Qaeda to post whatever they wanted on the web, and for the cells to easily have access to it in unedited.
the nature of the position is that her work is behind the scenes, confidential, and with rare exceptions, not visible to the public. i would wager that woodward and clarke spent far less time w/ rice than she spends with the president. clarke's book notwithstanding, we know from rice's testimony that he had limited access to Bush, unless of course he aksed for it, which he apparently never did.
What do you mean he never did? The only person who says he didn't is Rice, who has been shown to offer contradictory stories depending on the circumstances at the moment. Actually Rice didn't even Clarke did not ask of access. She said she doesn't RECOLLECT him asking for access. Clarke today talking about Rice's very statement, mentions that he did indeed request access not only to Rice but also to Cheney. Unlike Rice, there are numersous witnesses and independent sources backing up most of what he says.
Basso, have you read Clarke's book? I have. He agrees with you, somewhat. The fact that he was unable to meet with the President, despite having requested urgent meetings, and was unable to obtain any access to the President is one of his biggest bones of contention. He also put that in his sworn testimony, I'm pretty sure. I'll dig up the quotes for me if you don't believe me. I don't recall anybody ever contradicting him on this. EDIT: here you go, don't take my word for it, or even Clarke's, take the Initial Findings of Fact in the report of the September 11 Committee, as read into the record during last months proceedings: Do you honestly still believe that Clarke did not ask for these meetings? I would hope you wouldn't be so partisan as to deny even this. But that's beside the point. YOu're right that Rice has the most access to the President of any black female since Betty Currie. However, I would like to know, what policy initiatives of Rice's did you look at to judge her merits?
comparing clinton's personal secretary to the national security advisor is a bit much, don't you think? would you compare betty currie to sandy berger? why is it necessary to belittle the accomplishments of a black woman, just because she serves a republican president? it's demeaning, patronizing and borderline racist IMHO.
All i'm asking you to do is list her accomplishments while in office, which you really haven't done, aside from having "access" to the president. You're the one who keeps referring to her as "a black woman" Is that an important factor that you consider when determining her merit or effectiveness?
as i've said ad nauseum in this thread, her race and sex are relevant only as a marker of how far this country has come. as to her specific accomplishments, i've also noted that the nature of the job is to work behind the scenes and as such "specifics" are not readily visible to the outside world. anyone who watched her testimony with anything approaching an open mind would be clear on her qualifications for her job.
I'm not talking about her qualifications so much as her performance. I don't understand why you can't come up with any examples though. That's really a cop out. The work of past NSA's has been quite public, see Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft; and knowledge of this has been relatively contemporaneous. Hell, it was fairly well known not long after the Sudan missile strike in the CLinton admin that the idea to hit Sudan was the idea of Sandy Berger, for better or worse. But yeah, anybody who watched her say that a document entitled "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the US" gave no indication of attacks within the US probably did see her fulfilling her most important role for the president...... basso, for whatever reason, you undoubtedly consider Rice's race when evaluating her....even if it is just to note "how far this country has come". I'm not saying that you're a racist for doing so at all, I'm just pointing out that race does matter, and is used to evaluate people every single day, affirmative action or not.
