Have you ever been on a college campus? In general they are much safer than surrounding areas - and much different, as are the people, for various reasons (including having their own private police force). I cannot figure out how my college experieince could have been enhanced by the presence of guns in the classroom. I can think of many ways it would have been hindered however.
having a police force does not provide for self defense. plus while people that attend college are probably less likely to commit crimes they are in some cases the most likely to be victims. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#sex which is really what this argument is all about. protecting yourself.
Campuses have historically been safer places. However, recently this has changed. At UT in the past 2 weeks there have been 3 armed robberies on campus. I'm not saying the experience itself could have been enhanced but I just don't understand what makes a campus so different than anywhere else where we do allow CHL holders to carry. I'm not sold on the idea that it would hinder anything, either, because a concealed handgun is just that, concealed. If we allow CHL holders to carry on campus they aren't going to all of a sudden start waving guns around in people's faces.
Having a police force and being in a safer environment OBVIATES the need for self defense. I don't understnad why self-defense is so paramount - aside from anectdotal school shootings, is there an epidemic violence on college campuses that is only preventable by means of concealed handguns? Look - somebody asked "why is a college campus different?" THe answer is obvious - because it's a college campus, and by definition IS different. All sorts of different rules and regulations are prevalent on college campuses. Can I blurt out the answers during an examination while in college without fear of repercussions? NO - of course not. Can I deliver the exact same speech while standing in TImes Square as a private citizen and not a student without fear of repercussions? Yes - I could. Why? Because it's a different context in which different rules apply. I can go up to 116th street and Amsterdam over in Morningside heights. The atmosphere there is LIGHT YEARS different from the atmosphere in Washington Heights a few blocks away. Different places - different rules.
Yeah because all college kids are drunk all the time! This is such a ridiculous argument. Alcohol isn't allowed on campus. You also can't carry a weapon if you're intoxicated (I think). If we trust these always drunk kids to carry guns all the time, what's different about the campus? If they are in fact, always drunk, your problem isn't with the campus aspect but rather the age, maturity and trustworthiness of CHL holders.
The capacity for harm . . outweighs the capacity for good Even if you are a good little CHL holder . . . is your roommate? his friends that trapse through your room? "Hey, joey . . .you know how your borrowed my hair gel . . .well . .did you borrow my gun too?" Guns are the ultimate personification of the ideal The best defense is a good offense Best what to defend yourself from getting shot. . is to shoot someone Rocket River BTW - QUESTION: Are bullet proof vests illegal?
I think the first statement is our main difference in base beliefs. You don't believe the human right to self defense is paramount. Thats fine. I really cannot argue with you about time it takes for first responders to arrive on scene or feeling of security after being assaulted. If your fundamental feeling is that self defense is not a human right cannot be trumped by the feeling the environment is safer.
Silly argument. You have the right to defend yourself on your own property. When you step onto the property of others, you abide by their rules.
Yes that is the best way to stop someone from killing you. Bullet "proof" vest? What will you tell the rape victims on campus? chastity belts?
Well first, most schools are state schools. A completely private school would have a right to post a 30:06 sign.
You've gone right to straw man mode. Somebody asked why a college campus is different. The answers are pretty obvious to anybody who's been to college, as I have indicated. Now you're going off on some silly tangent about the human right to self defense - which I, am happy to find out from your illustrious post, I apparently oppose. Game over - insert coin - I am done.
It's not obvious to anyone who's been to college. I'm still on a college campus and feel no differently when I'm on campus than when I'm off.
Someone asked why different. You said because they are safer and the people there less likely to commit crime. I said that MAY be true but the people there are more likely (or in some cases the MOSt likely) to be victims. You responded that self defense should not be paramount. (due to some factors like police) I said that is crux of our argument. Your feelings on self defense.
Then the people of the State in question, or their designees should have the right to decide whether concealed handguns are allowed or not. After all, they are the property owners. I only have a problem where gun carry and ownership laws disregard property rights.
Correct. This is why I am for changing the law. I have no problem with the 30:06 signs on private property.
well, I don't know where you go to school. I went to a largely rural campus and a largely urban campus for undergrad and grad school respectively - the latter of which was in a high crime area, among the higher ones in the nation. The difference on campus was striking and obvious. I don't think this is an exception - rahter I believe its the rule, insofar as there is no disproportionate evidence of violent crime on campus.
Educate me, then. In both of the videos, the problem wasn't the law, it was the administration, right? If you feel that strongly about it, shouldn't you be redressing your representative to get the administration changed out?
Self-defence should not be paramount - which is why every non-anarchical society on earth devotes vast resources to collective and cooperative defense rather than relying on self-defense. THis has been true for a long, long, long, time.
