Chinese Virologist post report claiming virus made in Wuhan lab

American researchers are teaming up with China for things like this or monkey-human chimera cells because they're afraid of governmental or public backlash at home.

It's like a dysfunctional backseat driver who pretends to be holier than thou while barking orders on how to drive or pointing out potentially cool shortcuts.

Like everything else we've offshored or outsourced, this likely won't end well.

 

The crux of the matter is that we will likely never know, since China is blocking all investigations.

I think some are objecting here that the "adjectives" that are given/implied for holding an opinion ... like "any believes so-so is either ignorant or stupid or both".

It is possible that
* SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin
* SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin, was studied in WIV
* SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin, was studied in WIV, was accidentally leaked
* SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin, was studied in WIV, was intentionally leaked
* SARS-CoV-2 was created in some fashion in a lab, was accidentally leaked
* SARS-CoV-2 was created in some fashion in a lab, was intentionally leaked
* UFO aliens seeking to culled the anti-vaxers from human population
* Jewish Space Lasers
* members of a Satan-worshiping international ring including China, billionaires, the Illuminati, Hillary Clinton, Bill Gates, and Oprah Winfrey are raping and drinking the blood of kidnapped children in pursuit of the “fountain of youth”
etc.

If one is to say natural origin is the most probably origin, one is not saying that the other possibilities are not possibilities.

 

A backbone can come from any virus. There are plenty of reasons not to publish a backbone. Time, money and secrecy are a few that come to mind. Saying its natural because it doesn't come from a published backbone is nonsense.

They jumped to the conclusion that the virus was 100% natural when the evidence they presented did not back up the conclusion.

As malakas pointed out, I have already answered this.

I didn't think I would have to prove 45 years of bio-engineering is a fact. From 2011 - "Alarm as Dutch lab creates highly contagious killer flu"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tes-highly-contagious-killer-flu-6279474.html
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...-media-storm-around-controversial-flu-studies

And how did they create this killer flu, by taking H5N1 and serial passing it through ferrets until it because air born and easily transmissible in human lungs. Does that sound familiar? It's exactly the kinds of experiments they were doing on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan.

 

Serial passage is a form of directed evolution. It can be used to weaken a virus or make it more virulent. Most of the time they create more deadly viruses, supposedly so they can be prepared if they see the same things in a natural virus.

They don't use bats for serial passage because they don't share the same receptors as humans. They serial pass it through an intermediary like a ferret or civet or human tissue that shares the ACE2 receptor. The virus readily adapts to humans because it was bred to do so. The fact that there is no intermediary species this late in the game and the virus was immediately well adapted to humans is circumstantial evidence for a lab leak. You are making a good case for a lab leak.

Its not a wild theory at all. All you have to do is look at the published papers and follow the research that the scientist were actually doing. Very few people are saying it definitely came from a lab. Its a hypothesis with a lot a circumstantial evidence. Either hypothesis could be true.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/31/opinion/media-lab-leak-theory.html

"Was it outrageous to think that the virus might have escaped the Wuhan Institute? Not if you listened to evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein’s patient, lucid, scientifically rich explanation of the lab-leak hypothesis — which he delivered almost a year ago on the decidedly non-mainstream Joe Rogan podcast.

Was it smart for science reporters to accept the authority of a February 2020 letter, signed by 27 scientists and published in The Lancet, feverishly insisting on the “natural origin” of Covid? Not if those reporters had probed the ties between the letter’s lead author and the Wuhan lab (a fact, as the science writer Nicholas Wade points out in a landmark essay in The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, that has been public knowledge for months).

Was it wise to suppose that the World Health Organization, which has served as a mouthpiece for Chinese regime propaganda, should be an authority on what counted as Covid “misinformation” by Facebook, which in February banned the lab-leak theory from its platform? Not if the aim of companies like Facebook is to bring the world closer together, as opposed to laundering Chinese government disinformation while modeling its illiberal methods."

 

Again you make a lot of statements without any references to back them up. Can you show me any source for using serial passage to make a more deadly virus to humans, not more deadly to ferrets. Also, you realize that serial passage is not in vivo right? So you are evolving viruses in vitro to survive in that environment without an immune response - how does that make the virus more deadly???

 

Can you show me a source where you learned about these reasons to not publish a backbone - and that they are indeed researched and studied in the private or gov't labs? What's your source for this?

They did back up the conclusion - there is a lot of supporting evidence that is was from nature but there is scant for it being engineered.

The genetically engineered killer flu you are citing is for ferrets - again done in vitro - so how is that a pandemic in waiting for invivo?

 

The lableak theory is a still fringe theory that is being pushed by those with an agenda.

It's not impossible that it came from the Wuhan lab, but it's not impossible you will win the lottery tomorrow either. It has nothing to do with defending or attacking China, but everything to do with science man.

 

The thing is that even if we find out that the virus did not leak from a lab, China is culpable for the way they handled the response and transparency into factors that may have made this a pandemic.

By focusing on very unlikely scenarios such as the lab leak and genetic engineering angles, you're actually giving China a pass and cover for a lot of the wrongs they actually did do. You're unwittingly carrying water for the CCP @basso

 

Are you talking about Saddam Hussein's fridge that hadn't been open in 3 years

 

What conclusion should people be coming to?

 

Nobody is going to claim responsibility. They would be crucified.

You don't have to be a genius to know there wasn't WMDs in Iraq. However it's just as foolish to think we were fighting over oil.

We should be spending our time to reinforcing our supply chains and preparing for future disasters. Every disaster in this country is poorly handled.

 

animal can’t exactly speak either to claim anything, but point taken

 

Ok Iraq aside (I think different people were motivated by different things, but Cheney's motives were highly questionable at least), I'm talking about on this whole Covid origin thing.

I don't rule out the lab leak theory, I'm just waiting to see any kind of evidence given how unlikely it is the be the origin. China isn't being transparent, but they aren't transparent about anything. There's holes to all these claims it was manmade and a lot of things that their arguments are not addressing, and contradictions in their arguments. For me these things take an evidence based route, and so far that points to natural origins by a large degree. Of course you can't rule out the lab leak 100%, but the problem is that is resulting in people jumping on the lab leak bandwagon prematurely. As I have said, that actually might give China cover for some of its actual bad habits that contributed to this pandemic.

 

Come on. Do you really believe every experiment in every lab in the world publishes the backbone. You think Fort Detrick is handing out all their backbones? The burden of proof is on you. Show me a source that every backbone is published.

I posted two articles about an experiment where scientists passes a virus in vivo between ferrets to produce a deadlier virus.

 

Delete

 

This is still accurate folks. Despite the new reports and Biden admin’s willingness to investigate the possibility. It’s still only a theory and the scientific evidence from the genetic sequencing still points to natural origins.