Your post was about human rights in China. My response was about human rights in America. Did missiles get mentioned anywhere?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070122/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_china WASHINGTON - Chinese Foreign ministry officials have told a visiting U.S. diplomat that China's successful test of an anti-satellite weapon should not be seen as a threat and does not signal the beginning of a race to militarize space, the State Department said Monday. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill raised the issue with Chinese officials over the weekend in Beijing. China has not made a public announcement of the Jan. 11 test, in which it shot down one of its own old weather satellites, but officials acknowledged it during their meeting with Hill, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said. Hill, who heads the State Department's East Asia bureau, told the Chinese they should be more forthcoming about their military activities and their defense budget. These issues have been a long-running concern of the United States, and McCormack said the Chinese have taken only "baby steps" thus far toward more openness. McCormack said the United States seeks "greater understanding of exactly what their intent was" in testing the anti-satellite weapon. He said Hill also asked for details of the test and what plans China may have for future tests. "All of this is designed, really, to avoid any sort of misunderstandings, not only with the United States, but other countries around the world," McCormack said. Hill was in Beijing as part of a three-nation visit to exchange views on talks with North Korea over its nuclear weapons program. He also visited South Korea and Japan. In criticizing the test on Friday, the State Department said "modern life as we know it" depends on the security of space-based technology, whose uses include data transmission, communications and weather forecasting.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defensespace&id=news/aw012207p2.xml China's successful test of an anti-satellite (Asat) weapon means that the country has mastered key space sensor, tracking and other technologies important for advanced military space operations. China can now also use "space control" as a policy weapon to help project its growing power regionally and globally. Aviation Week & Space Technology first broke the news of the Chinese Asat test on aviationweek.com Jan. 17. China performed the test Jan. 11 by destroying the aging Chinese Feng Yun 1C (FY-1C) weather satellite target at 537 mi. altitude. The attack was carried out with a kinetic kill vehicle launched by a small ballistic missile. U.S. intelligence agencies calculated in advance that the Chinese were ready for the exercise and programmed American eavesdropping and space tracking sensors accordingly to obtain maximum information. The White House confirmed the Aviation Week article Jan. 18 and warned China that its actions will carry ramifications. "We are concerned about it, and we've made it known," says Tony Snow, the White House spokesman. "The U.S. believes China's development and testing of such weapons is inconsistent with the spirit of cooperation that both countries aspire to in the civil space area," said Gordon Johndroe, U.S. National Security Council spokesman. "We and other countries have expressed our concern to the Chinese regarding this action." The revelation of the Asat test also sparked official condemnation or concern of the Chinese from the governments of Canada, Australia, Japan and South Korea. The warning about ramifications comes as NASA and the Chinese space agency are continuing talks aimed at closer civil space collaboration. The Asat test will likely further undercut U.S. government enthusiasm for such scientific space cooperation, at a time when the U.S. and China are debating military space policy at the United Nations. But China's bold move will have greater impact on arguments by factions in the Defense Dept. and aerospace industry for increased U.S. spending on space surveillance and control measures. The Asat test will also likely spur formation of a more robust military strategy focused on China. Many spacecraft operate in, or at least transit, the area of space where the attack occurred, and there are concerns that debris from the test could pose a hazard to these satellites. Air Force Space Command data show that when the kill vehicle impacted the target satellite, debris was ejected from the impact point at velocities of up to 1,400 mph. (2,000 fps.). China's growing military space capability is a key reason the Bush administration last year formed the nation's first new national space policy in more than a decade. "The policy is designed to ensure that our space capabilities are protected in a time of increasing challenges and threats," says Robert G. Joseph, undersecretary for arms control and international security at the U.S. State Dept. "This is imperative because space capabilities are vital to our national security and to our economic well-being," Joseph said in an address on the policy at the National Press Club in Washington. Although more of a "policy weapon" at this time, the Chinese Asat shows that the Chinese military can credibly threaten imaging reconnaissance and other satellites operated by the U.S., Japan, Russia, Israel and Europe. Taiwan also operates a small imaging spacecraft that can photograph objects as small as about 10 ft. in size, a capability good enough to count cruise missiles pointed at Taiwan from the Chinese mainland. CIA and National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) officials are especially concerned about their ability to monitor Chinese weapons developments with satellite reconnaissance because the Chinese have become so adept at camouflage. The list of countries with space reconnaissance capability grew again last week, with the launch of Egypt's EgyptSat 1 from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. The CIA, National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, NASA and other government organizations have a full-court press underway to process information they collected on the Asat test, which remained highly classified last week. The spacecraft that was destroyed was launched by the Chinese in 1999 into a Sun-synchronous circular orbit inclined 98.6 deg. The FY-1C had a 5-ft.-square main body with solar arrays spanning 27 ft. The attack occurred at 5:26 p.m. EST Jan. 11 as the target satellite was 715 mi. from the Xichang launch site in Sichuan province. It was passing about 45 deg. above the horizon at Xichang, as the Chinese ballistic missile with the kill vehicle was launched either directly from Xichang or a site nearby. Tracking of the target satellite was managed from a large team at the Xian Chinese space tracking control center. The azimuth from the launch point to the target was about 346 deg., or 15 deg. west of due north. The target in orbit was heading south, so the intercept involved an extremely high-velocity, nearly head-on collision, sources said. Debris from the impact was ejected in all directions at 700-1,400 mph., tracking data indicate. The event occurred 94 min. before sunrise at Xichang, but the target satellite was in sunlight, enabling excellent monitoring of the event by the Chinese. Tracking cameras at Xichang had an excellent view of the intercept from the front, while cameras at China's other major launch site at Jiuquan in the Gobi Desert had an equally good viewing angle from behind. U.S. Air Force Defense Support Program missile warning satellites in geosynchronous orbit detected the Xichang launch of the Asat kill vehicle, and U.S. Air Force Space Command radars monitored the FY-1C orbit both before and after the exercise. U.S. Space Command had cataloged 32 pieces of debris through Jan. 18, but it's likely the attack left hundreds or thousands of tiny pieces of debris that could orbit for years. The Air Force reporting on the FY-1C orbital elements have been posted once or twice daily for years, but those reports jumped to about four times per day just before the test. The USAF radar reports all but ceased Jan. 11, then appeared to show "signs of orbital distress" when resumed temporarily a few days later. By Jan. 18, the data showed multiple debris where the FY-1C spacecraft had been before. CHINA IS ALSO DEVELOPING A LASER Asat capability and last year illuminated a U.S. reconnaissance satellite with a laser that did no harm. "But it made us think," Donald Kerr, NRO director, said at the time. Aviation Week reported more than 20 years ago that the U.S. has used lasers to illuminate Chinese and then Soviet satellites to obtain engineering intelligence. Both the U.S. and former Soviet Union maintained various Asat programs throughout the Cold War. In a 1985 controversial test, a U.S. Air Force F-15 launched a miniature kill vehicle propelled by SRAM/Altair solid rocket motors to impact and destroy the USAF Solwind science spacecraft. In more recent years, the Pentagon has spent nearly $400 million developing a much more advanced KE-Asat kinetic kill vehicle. It was never used in an Asat test, but at least three standby units were built. The U.S. Air Force still operates the 76th Space Control Sqdn., based at Peterson AFB, Colo.--the service's first offensive and defensive counterspace technology squadron. Mobile teams from the 76th can deploy worldwide to jam enemy satellite communications.
Your post was about 100-200 years ago so I didn't really find it relevant to today. It would be like saying we can't trade with Japan because 50 years ago they were our enemy.
Absolutely nothing. the side discussion came as a result of Mr. Clutch's initial post about human rights in China.
This is not what I said at all. In fact, in a previous thread I have indicated that people don't appreciate the dangers of highly energetic particles and radiation in space. What I said there is no electromagnetic pulse effect from the detonation of a nuclear weapon in space. Here is an article that explains the pulse effect in some detail. My short (probable grossly oversimplified) explanation would be that EMP is a resonance effect as gamma rays strike particles in the atmosphere and transfer their energy. Electromagentic discharge moving across field lines creates a temporary imbalance in the earth's magnetic field (like a dynamo in reverse) and the resonance from the field whipping back to it's normal shape causes a widespread effect which is out of proportion to the bomb's yield. As I understand it, it would only take 3 or 4 normal sized bombs at the right altitude to create an EMP effect that would be significant over the entiere United States.
Ottomaton, If you are not going to believe me, maybe the following can help: go to google, type in electromagnetic pulse satellite, click on the first link that comes up. It is a speech by Dr. George W. Ullrich the Deputy Director of Defense Special Weapons Agency. I will quote part of the fourth paragraph: "The bomb-induced electrons will remain trapped in these belts for periods exceeding one year. All unhardened satellites traversing these belts in low earth orbit could demise in a matter of days to weeks following even one high altitude burst." The link to the speech is: http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1997_h/h970716u.htm Hope it helps.
So, am I not understanding what you are saying? I agree that each of the four fundamental forces occur in outer space in abundance. Are you saying that a nuclear detonation in outer space will create the traditional EMP effect? That seems to be different from your first statement. BTW, some very low orbits, such as the altitude where Iridium satellites flew are inside the atmosphere. GPS and other military satellites operate very much farther out to geosynchronous orbit ranges, beyond where even the space shuttle is capable of going.
"Quote: ""Originally Posted by real_egal Before such direct "killing satellite" technology, there was long discussion about detonate a nuclear warhead in outter space during war time, so that the electroic-magnate wave will take care of those satellites."" A minor correction. You don't get an EMP effect in outer space. The effect is a result of gamma rays transferring their energy to the molecules in the atmosphere. Also the nuclear device has to be detonated relatively high in the atmosphere for it to work or the air density will damp the effect, so there is a relatively narrow altitude range for the bomb to be detonated at to create the EMP effect." I was referring to your reply to real_egal. If you detonate a nuclear warhead in outer space, you would knock out whole bunch of satellites through EM radiation.
You know, it's actually funny. Not a peep of this had come from the Chinese media. Everything came from the west. So much for "China is all about waving it's penis right now as it feels the need to assert that it's a "man" of a nation - that it's a superpower and it's the new tough kid on the block and needs to be taken seriously." As a matter of fact, when asked, the official Chinese government spokesperson said he "can't comment" because he "wasn't aware of any such tests," at the same time stressing that China is interested in "peaceful relations" with the rest of the world. Now, had China actually came out and said "we tested a satellite destroying missile," would morons like NewYorker run out of things to say? After all, China is already waving its penis feeling like a man, not much to go above that in terms of bragging rights is there? Furthermore, would he run out of sheer idiotic things to say? Probably not.
You're asking if the Chinese spokesperson wouldn't run out of sheer idiotic things to say like, he "can't comment" because he "wasn't aware of any such tests" and the like? Not sure what penises have to do with anything. Sounds like a White House spokesperson for Bush. The PRC government is obviously taking notes. D&D. Penis Envy is a Waste of Time.
They'll want them regardless If anything comes out of this it's only because the U.S. has just applied the Monroe doctrine to outer space. I wonder how many African Americans feel the same way about the U.S. gov't. a peaceful and intelligent China got invaded and torn up and divvied up by Western powers. An act which the country is still recovering from as it happened less than a hundred years ago. Forgive them if they feel the need to not let that happen again. Would that be why the U.S. got caught spying on China? Or is constantly complaining about the trade deficit? Considering that the rest of the world doesn't recognize Taiwan as a legit country and that the land belongs to China, I'd say they have a right to do what they want with it. You mean follow U.S. interests. I thought we were done with collecting Asian territories. I was going to leave your post alone but the penis waving metaphor was pretty childish. I don't know what China did to you, maybe you got run over by a Chinese delivery guy or something.
It is quite clearly that you don't possess even the most basic reading comprehension skills. NewYorker is saying how China is "all about waving its penis in the air trying to show it's a man." That's pretty funny. What's the point of "waving your penis" when you are not gonna brag to somebody about it? And that's the bottom line. Whether it was done or not, the Chinese government said absolute jack about it. So much for penis waving.
It's clear there's a reason you're the only person on my ignore list. Thanks for reminding me. D&D. Rockets in Flight.
according to some reports, India started work on developing such capabilities years ago (other reports claim that India already has the capability) Its quite clear that you missed the latest news reports. link
Well, then you are incorrect. I am guessing that by your first answer about the Martian satellite that you don't differentiate that the electromagnetic pulse effect from plain old electromagnetic interference? It sounds like you simply believe that the bomb blows up and creates a giant magnetic field in the detonation. The EMP is a physical impossibility without Compton scattering from gamma rays on the earth’s atmosphere and their resultant reaction with earth's magnetic field. You might as well be claiming that you can make sound in space. It is simply not possible without the medium of the atmosphere. As I stated before I am not an expert in these matters, and I will do my best not to try and claim something that I am not knowledgeable about, but what you are claiming is simply impossible. There is lots of EM radiation caused by natural emissions in space but these are orders of magnitude less powerful than that generated by an EM pulse from an atmospheric nuclear detonation. I don't want to get into a internet quoting battle with you because the physics of the issue is more vital than what people say in various quotes, but I'll try just one in case you think I am making this up. It rightly points out that to be close enough to experience the effects of electromagnetic radiation generated exclusively by the blast itself, you would essentially have to be within the blast radius and would have much more to worry about than EMP. [rquoter] My apologies, it has been a while since I considered these kind of issues, and I tend to avoid them. But you should know that the electromagnetic pulse of most concern is due to the interaction of nuclear device generated gamma radiation with the atmosphere. Therefore, EMP effects are of little or no concern for a nuclear device detonated in space unless, of course, you are concerned with nuclear devices detonated so close to a target that gamma radiation interactions with atoms of the target give rise to what is referred to as an EMP source region. But then, if you are that close, the target will probably experience effects far more significant than those due to electromagnetic phenomena generated interior to the target. Sidney Chivers, nuclear engineering - retired [/rquoter]
