You should stop those ranting starting with a wrong premise. I know my English is bad, but if your reading comprehension is that poor, I am willing to spell it out for you one more time. You can call out your government, and you can call out republicans, and you can also call out Nazis; however, you don't and shouldn't attack American People as whole, and German people as a whole. On the contrary, in every single post of yours, regarding China, you accuse everything to Chinese people as a whole, so-called Chinese posters as a whole. You never address CCP or Mao, all your flamming bait was about Chinese people as a whole committing genocide. Your love is so special.
If you two are through with your oceanic pissing match I wouldn't mind talking about the China/Tibet situation some more. This goes for both of you. I think it does an injustice to this conversation which is certainly more important than either one of you. I'm curious what defense can be offered for the Chinese governments actions in Tibet. Regards, Brock
Oh the irony, who started the thread? Then replies to his own thread making a generalized statement about China and Tibet baseless upon the subject at hand? Look, everyone knows China has controlled Tibet harshly for the last 50 years or so. Why is it so important that Chinese people on a bbs board speak out against it? Does it give you a power trip to try to make people admit their people or country's faults? Newsflash, no country is perfect and supporting a country does not mean unconditional blind faith to it. As an American, I don't go to any military person I met and tell them to "speak out against" the wars in the middle east whenever an innocent civilian is killed. Heck some of them are against the war and want to come home anyways. The point I'm trying to make is basically you're just adding fuel to the fire you started. Yeah there's people who got suckered into it and added their own fuel, but I just hope most people see what it has reduced to. Ok, this was a newsworthy event that we should all be aware of, and form our own opinions and do research if we want to find more facts. However, before anything substantial is added, you jump right in with genocide criticisms. Even Sishir, who you noted as fair, describes China's treatment of Tibet not as a genocide, since the CCP is indiscriminate in their brutality against anything not of their political ideology, but more of a cultural superiority that leads to such policies. That is a far cry from a bunch of CCP leaders sitting down and thinking of ways to wipe a people off the face of the planet. And in fairness, Sishir gives well conceived perspectives based on his experiences and observations in a historical and sociological context. NewYorker, you on the otherhand, take a point and with really little evidence, but a lot of conviction jump to conclusions on guility associations. That is not the way to argue and would get destroyed in any high school debate team. I'm not taking that out of context. That's your full quote replying to your thread and link, just after Mr. Brightside's terrible comment. That's akin to saying what all whites or all cops have done to all blacks is horrific based ONLY on something like the rodney king incident or a shooting of an unarmed black man. It would make more sense if the subject was a historical perspective on China and Tibet, or the invasion, or a generic comment on the CCP's actions on all dissents, Tibetians or not, but certainly and absolutely not on an isolated incident based on the race of the people in involved.
Oh, it's very easy. They were engaged in clearly separatist activity supported by western imperialist powers, so they had to be rooted out. Accuse me of being jingoist, but hey, isn't that how Bush justifies everything? You're in his neck of the woods, you should know!
Oh, and this incident was ripped out of context. There were a bunch of guys that didn't properly get searched at the border, and they were properly warned. Probably a bunch of smugglers or terrorists. Funny how the west rips EVERYTHING COMPLETELY out of context and out of proportion.
And to break the bubble all the people in the West who are the "Free Tibet" type: It is a total non-issue in China. Nobody outside of Tibet gives a ****, nor do they sympathize, and most of the Tibetians don't really care either since they're starting to make money. There's a reason why separatist activity goes on OUTSIDE of China, and it's not just because of the strict enforcement. There are many prominent banned movements present in various countries that have strict enforcement, but the Tibetian separatist movement is NOT one of them. This means that the movement has VERY LITTLE PUBLIC SUPPORT, and is CHIEFLY supported by the few people we kicked out and by the imperialists in the west (possibly Japan too) who want to bring down New China to create a China pliable to their interests. Westerners who want to free Tibet are working on what is a non-issue where it matters, are serving the imperalists' interests, and thus are doomed to failure and irrelvance.
I will take the word of ANY Chinese news outlet before the word of ANY Western outlet on this issue. The western media is SO TOTALLY BIASED and many times FACTUALLY INCORRECT when recording on a Chinese event that it is totally unreliable. I mean, would you trust Arab networks to report honestly on issues involving the American war in Iraq?
the statement that the Tibetans are making money is one of the falacies supported by the Chinese government. The fact is that the work promoted in Tibet is only open to Chinese workers, not Tibetans. The fact that all of this is a non-issue in China and to you is a disgrace. The fact that you then speak for "most Tibetans" is appalling. The fact is that the Chinese government sees the monasteries as an economic drain on resources in the area that could further flow to China. The fact is that China reaps many benefits from the region without returning many favors. The reason the separist activity goes on outside of China is simple. Inside China it is enforced through imprisonment and torture. That is the reason the Dalai Lama is in exile. that is the reason China controls the monasteries and suppresses freedom of religion and speech in the region. The irony of you spouting back propaganda as the defense for your government's actions is sickening. Stand up and research yourself what the situation is before you go around accusing others of not having their facts straight. You are a puppet. It's easy to be a puppet when refusing to be a puppet gets you thrown in jail, shot or detained. Defending these soldiers actions, unfortunately, is not he low point of your posts. Regards, Brock
Hopefully I can help with shifting focus from personal ego trips on this thread. I don't think there is any "defense" for the CCP's actions, but for China, I believe there is a screw you attitude towards the West's complaints about Tibet. Look at China at the turn of the 20th century. It was a mess. Every European had a piece China. Only 3 Asian countries were not fully colonized, China, Thailand, and Japan, and Japan was actually a colonizer themselves. The only reason why China wasn't fully colonized was because that was the big prize, and European competition prevent one of them to fully take it. However, the effects were the same. Chinese people were treated as 2nd class in their own country while parts of their country were taken in unfair treaties. After WWII, and most of the colonizers were kicked out, there came about the idea of rebuilding China as a power to never get threatened against. Mao was aggressive in getting nukes and the CCP wanted to unite the "motherland" including Taiwan, and yes, Tibet, which was partitioned off by the British. So mainly, it's symbolic. Plus Europe never apologized or paid for conquering China, while benefitting greatly from it, so there is an underlying resentment towards the West when they criticize China. As far as Tibet, my knowledge is that it was really backwards, not that it's inherently bad, but it did have slavery. It was one of those things that the communists didn't like and believe was unfair, which it was. To the West, it's like American settlers destroying indigenous people, which is incorrect to single out because the CCP was doing the same crap all over. To the CCP it wasn't racial or genocide; it was political and ideological. If you gonna deservely criticize China, don't pick and choose the victims. All of them deserve the same respect for their struggles no matter where they are from. I can only continue with my speculation on the situation with the Tibetian side, which saw their leader exiled and people brutally killed far too excessively. Yes, life wasn't fair in Tibet in the first place, but they were not given a chance to evolve and progress on their own. The Dalai Lama is a huge worldwide celebrity, especially the rest of Asia, so you would think had the communists not taken over, maybe Tibet will still be part of China anyways, but as an autonomous region like he wanted. Honestly, watching some of these Free Tibet rock concerts just comes off as a sham in the context of the reality of what is actually going on there.
And you are a puppet of the Western Imperialists. As long as you serve as one, nobody in China, where the issue ACTUALLY OCCURS, will give a sh*t about what you say, because we hate western imperialists and know what they want to do to us. So shut the f*uk up and do us all a favor.
no doubt. as to the rest of your post, very inciteful for me. I, too, think that had China let Tibet be autonomous while maintaining it's unarguable attatchment to the motherland would have been the best route to take. I imagine the government didn't do it as it would have seemed like capitulation and possibly given hope to other regions that they might be able to accomplish the same thing. There is way too much of an economic incintive for China to keep Tibet. Apart from the mineral reserves, China would never part with the water rights, hydroelectric power, tourism income and timber. Control of the region is much more than historical context. The argument that Tibet has always been part of China (going back to the 1200's) is possibly vaild. The arguement that Tibet was autonomous during this expanse of time is also possibly vaild. It means a lot to me that you recognize the mistakes of your government and are able to discuss the situation from a unique perspective that I don't have. I truly appreciate that. Respect, Brock
I'm a bit busy today, but I assure you when I get time I will be coming over to take over your country. My government tells me what to believe and it says you are a bad, bad man. But, I hope, you can be changed with a healthy dose of Coca Cola and a few Big Macs. In the meantime, I live in a country where free speach is psuedo respected and will continue to express my views whether you care to read them or not. I'm not in the mood to do favors today... P.S. I love you. So much so that I will offer you the ability to cuss me out properly in the future. It's spelled f u c k. P.P.S. Since the issue ACTUALLY OCCURS in China it seems to me you should ACTUALLY CARE. Regards, Brock
Oh, by the way, I live in the United States, and have lived in the US for 15 years. I have had plenty of Big Macs and Coca Cola, and it has not changed my opinion one bit. There is plenty of McDonalds and Coca Cola in China. Having seen for myself how the Americans conduct themselves, their internal policy, and their foreign policy, I must conclude that it is in no moral position to boss anyone around, much less a major power like China. You guys need to clean up your house first before you continually mess with other people, and switching to the Democrats is not going to do the trick. Oh, Reason #500 why everyone hates the USA: Your tone is so ridiculously patronizing. Nobody else appreciates that, even your allies like the UK, France, and Germany.
Actually, minor note, China is that my government. I will be voting for my govt in a few year. The risk of jury duty is probably worth it.
compucomp, it is curious that you are attacking me as if I were the united states government when in all of my posts I refer specifically to the government of China. Perhaps someday you can seperate the two. I am well aware of how the rest of the world views us and the fact that we need to clean our own house is something with which I would completely agree. To deny the fact that you have a little house cleaning to do yourself is the underlying irony of your post. The fact that in your posts you claim to speak for everyone in the world outside of the US is very telling about your perspective. You should try to seperate the broad generalizations and obtain a dose of reality. Passion is best tempered with unbiased reflection (or a good woman - or better yet, a bad woman). Cheers, Brock
"____ government does horrible things, why do you group me in with ____ ? I don't support that." Americans should take more responsibility for their governments actions, since they are supposedly representitive of it's people... no?
