The US had nothing to do with the 1949 invasion (in which thousands of tibetans were killed), and the Champa rebellion started prior to the CIA assistance - which trained a whopping 259 resistance fighters over the course of 5 years and staged all of two major airdrops. This of course was all over and concluded during the GPCR and other periods of oppression. Your overstatement of the case is ludicrous, to put it mildly. Your picture of the two living peacefully, hand in hand, prior to the CIA intervening is an absolute joke. Are you one of those types who thinks the CIA faked the moon landing?
SamFisher, I always enjoy reading your posts. I cannot speak for others. But the impression I have, after reading those posts, is that they are listing the historical facts and interpretations that Tibet was not as independent as some of the posters claimed to be. You may question the conclusion. But I would not call these facts dubious because they did happen. I also don't think that most Chinese posters argue that Tibet has always been part of China. My reading of the argument is that China has some internationally recognized controls over Tibet before the 1949 invasion. This is also true. Now, you may argue that these historic claims do not justify the repression in Tibet and I am agree with you. But there is no need to denial what have happened in the history.
I'm talking about the denial that many often have for Tibet's history as an independent entity for hundreds of years when it was a rival empire, as well as the fact that it had exercised independence for a substantial period prior leading up to 1949 after getting rid of the Chinese. The funny thing about this argument, is that those arguing that Tibet has always been part of China usually cite back to some obscure historical agreement, signed under duress (and later repudiated when they kicked the Chinese out in 1913) by one of the dalai lamas. At the same time, they say that the Tibetan Government was a bunch of illegitmate feudal lords. You cannot say "the Tibetan lamas were illegitmate oppressive slaveholders who were bad for the people" and say "too bad so sad, one of the illegitimate slaveholder feudal lords signed a piece of paper nine zillion years ago and gave your freedom away, therefore you are our colony now even though you've been independent for 36 years".....it's the height of absurdity.
It seems here we have the Chinese loyalists versus the rest of the world. My god - there's not even a single Tibetan on here to defend their own point of view. The sole exception is Sashir - who clearly has a western education and global perspective. In any case, what disturbs me most is how despite the numerous pieces of evidence demonstrating some kind of genocide from China towards Tibet over the past 50-odd years, the Chinese posters are vehemently defensive about that... Instead of being horrified, they minimize it by comparing it to other atrocities. Or by saying we must be threatned by China. Let's review the many excuses: Lies! Self-defense America is worse We just hate communism Maybe we hate China Tibetans are better off anyway Dali Lama is a crook working with the CIA How can these posters so passionately attack Japan over a shine visit - note - just a visit which only can be interpreted as a symbol of past atrocities but passionate defend their own countries current atrocities????? I say to real-egal, panda, and others.... Listen to what everyone on this thread is telling you! We argue with eachother on every thread - but on this one - we are all in complete agreement! Pay attention - think - listen, and say wait a second....maybe there is something really messed up in Tibet. Why are we so passionate! Because - it's really sad to see a culture get wiped out in the modern era.
Before 1949, 700,000 of Tibet's population of 1.2 million lived as slaves. I believe in the US, we support the notion of liberating slaves despite the necessary costs. In the early and mid-1950s, China improved the infrastructure of the country and worked with the Dalai Lama to make progressive changes. It wasn't until CIA got involved in providing propaganda and arms for rebel leaders that led to the rebellion and causing a major split between the two factions.
Would some of you guys calm down? NewYorker doesn't hate Chinese people. Damn. He does appear to be disgusted with the video in which Chinese border guards apparently shoot at some people. But that doesn't mean he hates Chinese people. So everyone take a deep breath and chill out with the wild accusations.
Read his posts more carefully, he accuses us of denial before being provoked in this threat. Here's an example: It certainly seems he has something against us. I don't know him personally, so I guess I don't really know. He certainly doesn't like what we have to say.
I only have something against the way you guys think! Where as some on here try to be nice and bring light to what you don't understand is going on in Tibet, I prefer using a sledgehammer. When you guys can come around and say - holy S$&# - what on earth have we done to Tibet???? It was so wrong! When you guys come around and say that, we can all be friends and go out for dim sum!
I think what has happened is that NewYorker has taken an unfortunate event and reappropiated to an entire race. This has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, even though they would be digusted by the events as well. It really not fair to bait something that's pretty messed up into an example of a genocide, which apparently has nothing to do with the shootings, but has become convienent buzzwords in any situation, debate or not, between Chinese and Tibetians.
Wake up and stop your attempt to draw everyone into your lone and twisted camp. There is no "we" in whatever you referring to. Go back to read every single reply of every single poster on this very thread, You SIR, are the only single soul cry for genocide over a shooting incident. Sishir pointed out exact same questions I had for the video clip. Deckard joked about whether he would be flammed to explain to others his understanding of current China situation. I totally agree with his views on that matter. I had lots of agreement and differences with them, FB, Sam, Hayes, Wnes, Panda, micheon, and many other posters. We shared our differences and common ground, that's what discussion and debate is about. They are here for debate, but you sir, are NOT. You are here for trolling. When the thread was started, you are the first and last and only one, excited about the fact one person lost life, you called genocide, and provocated and asked where Chinese posters are, where the bunch who's against "shrine visit". There is NOT a single ounce of indication for discussion, but rather a silly attention whorish attemp for provok. I am not a strong person, when I see such disgusting noncense, I can not sit back to watch. I will bite your bait, and debate with you. Except for accusion and labling, have you ever provided any posts with substance based on facts, data, direct quotes? Nope, your interpretation only. It's funny that you are the one asks other to think. I don't care whether you love Chinese culture or food or people. I don't care whether you have Chinese friends, family, or you call each other racial slurs with your Chinese friends. All I care is, everything you spit out in this thread is nonsense. All I care is, the only one who jumped up and down celebrately enjoyed news that one Tibetan was shot, that's very disgusting behavior. For the last time, there is no "we" in what you represent in this thread. You are alone there with you twisted joy.
This event is just one bullet point in a long long long long long list or atrocities and other events that China has done to Tibet.
At least you called me "sir" You're losing it man. This isn't about me - don't turn away from the cultural genocide that has been done (and many posters here have stated that) and try to make it about me. Nice attempt to derail the discussion though. Deal with the issue at hand....and that's why is China prosecuting the Tibetans? It's wrong....and you know it's wrong. So instead of getting defensive - speak out against it - and then this thread would disappear!
OK, while I may believe that is true, you can't make an argument based on assumptions and past history. In this case, everything is still under investigation and the facts are unclear, though it does lean heavily against the Chinese soldiers.
Look, I can say what America did in Panama - absolutely horrendous. What we did in Nicaragua - horrible. We supported death squads. In Iraq? Morrally corrupt. Probably the worst was Nicaragua...our military knowingly supported anti-democracy contra's who we knew rounded up families and shot them. Probably our lowest moment that I can remember. So I can criticize my own country. I will call out my own government. But it's becoming clear that the Chinese posters here...and hopefully this does not reflect the population of China at large - can not do the same. Apoogists allows for terrible evil. We saw this with the Nazi's. When you just make excuses and pretend it's not so bad...people die. For every Chinese that denies what's going on in Tibet - I hope you realize that the blood is on your hands if you choose to look the other way and live in denial.
I thought you were going to "be man enough to stand up for yourself". But it doesn't surprise me, you failed again. You are, by far, the ONLY ONE who called that incident as genocide. You are the only one who baited for Chinese posters. YOu are the only one, after I asked 7, 8 questions regarding the clip, without answering any of it, accused CHINESE PEOPLE of defending their "godly government". The thread was never about you, but you hijacked it and started with your trolling in 4th post. You are indeed the ONLY ONE, you should be proud of yourself.
It is genocide - cultural or whatever - i'm not the only one who uses that term. now will you quit your whining? boo hoo - i'm a bad mean person! whaaaaa! why don't you get back to the topic at hand - why are you not able to see the horror of what's going on? Don't you think this is sickening??? People getting shot on a mountain because they just want to go see the Dali Lama and touch him? Witnesses who saw what happened! The U.S. lodging a formal protest to the Chinese gov't! How long will you pull the wool over your eyes? How long?
