QUOTE]Riet: I don't know the specifics of your "peer sharing program". However copying other people's ideas for commerical use without their permission is stealing. That is exactly why Napster was shut down. As far as making it cheaper for poorer countries. That's negotiation that should be made amongst the parties. However to justify stealing it just because its too expensive is no excuse.
I was just making jest, it bothers me some that my stuff gets ripped off, but I also understand that publishers charge too much in China etc for our work. I am sure someday it will all work out. DaDakota
I understand your feeling DD. I think the crux of the fake products situation in China is a matter of governmental power, not akin to nonsense like Chinese loving to steal. I'd say that if the USA government's control on copyright infringement is lax, there will be the same problem in USA as well. What the Chinese government faces here is a matter of ability, not will. The fake industry here is like the druglords in USA. The makers, the sellers, they just keep popping out. Last year the government found out and shut down over 1000 such factories, but you get the same stuff on the streets. They don't just come domestically but also from outside countries. There is a large portion of population unemployed who needs money and social welfare in China sucks. All this complicated the situation. They need to make harsher laws to deter the makers and sellers, the fake industry is hurting China's every industry related to intellectual rights.
I agree with Dada, "...someday it will all work out". I haven't thought about this in a long time, but while I was a kid on Okinawa (late 60s, early 70s), whenever somebody was going to Taiwan, everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY placed an order for LPs (anybody remember them?). You could get 10 albums from your allowance. True, you could only play them about 10 times before the low quality became obvious and any kind of heat melted them. That fact was we couldn't get the original. Would I do it now? Nope. I'm older. There's an evolution going on here. An evolution in our relationship with the far east. Our man Ming is a part of it. These copywrite issues are a part of it. "Settle down Beavis" Dada is right. RR
Panda, your posts are great. I agree on all of them. Wind&Sea, don't be discouraged. A few posters jumped on the opportunity to vent their feelings, with somewhat harsh words. Forget about it. Two of the good things in American cultures is that people do speak out loudly and they take harsh remarks not very personally in general. You can also list lots, I mean lots of dirty things done by Americans, I am sure most of your American listeners will not lose sleep because of it. As for "Chinese like to steal" or similar crap, one can attach another sentence " and Americans like to steal, too" at the end of it with verifiable facts. If we think about things in a historical and cultural context, we'll find out that all human races are pretty much the same in their nature. They all pursue the best life and high moral standard, yet they are far away from that goal. At the meantime, let's talk about basketball and enjoy it. So please, WindandSea, keep feeding us with more information from China, the more the better.
And your words aren't full of bias? You've just managed to excuse China's being the world's largest perpetrator of copyright infringement because they can't afford American products.
lol Goodenized. Very uncool what this writer did. I think that an e-mail/phone call/whatever is in order.
Timing: I don't get your point. I've said repeatedly that "stealing is wrong" and so, by common sense, copyright infringement in China is wrong. but relating copyright infringement to generaliaztions that the Chinese like to steal is blatant stereotyping. There's no excuse on copyright infringement and the Chinese government, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, is working on it. I also take offense at the implications prevailed in some posts as if the Americans, or people in other countries, have higher morality than the Chinese as an explanation to the seriousness of copyright infringement and related problems in China. In my view the problem stems from a lack of government control, and from the weak punishment regarding such crimes. I'd venture to say that the Americans would do the same if the legal control in this regard is a little lax, evidenced by the prevailance of peer to peer programs on internet used by millions of Americans daily. Does it mean it's ok for the Americans to steal and not the Chinese? Why single Chinese out and call them thiefs? I do not think I've been biased towards anything. I'm just an opinionated person.
I don't think that he was denying that it's wrong because he certainly disproves of it. He was simply explaining his thoughts on why copyright infringement exists in China, and that with similar conditions in China, it can be as prevalent in the U.S.A or anywhwere in the world. He's basically stating that it's inevitable with the current affairs and not that China doesn't want to stop piracy, but that it could not. Not being able to afford the products was only one of the reasons he mentioned. With 1.3 billion people for China to maintain order and be on the vigil for their actions, 300 million people without jobs that need to be fed, and 1.29 billion people who can't afford U.S. products, now is the smoke is still there?
Man, the games are so much sweeter when they are between 2-3 US dollars. I won't lie, I bought plenty of software whenever I go back to Hong Kong... and *gasp* I even bought a few games from the Wing Commander series... Seriously, I'm starting to see your point since I'm just about to graduate with a C.S. degree, so I guess I wouldn't like it too much if someone makes money off of my work. If it makes you feel better, I know that they're making a better effort at curtailing software piracy in H.K. Yao Ming, please give me a percentage too, hook a Chinese brotha up...
He has not stated that copyright infringement is OK. You can read it again and see that he actually said the problem exists and explained why it exists. By the way, I think "China's being the world's largest perpetrator of copyright infringement " is a casual conclusion by you in a hurry. Can you prove it or it's just a feeling from news reports. I might argue that being the most computerized and Internetized (?) country (both home and business) in the world, US has a chance and might actually be on the top of the largest perpetrators of copyright infringement, in terms of numbers of violators and dollar amount. And I have to tell you that this is also my unproved impression.
Enforcement of copyright infringement would be difficult to implement if the country doesn't have enough resources to fund public welfare, education, and other essential basic things that we take for granted here in America. While it is inexcusible that people would commit such crimes for personal gains, the country simply haven't had the resources to counter it. China has continuously invested more and more to curtail these crimes, but unfortunately, it's not enough. Simply put, China doesn't have the ability to stop these crimes yet. Please excuse them, considering that even in the U.S.'s infancy state, they had their troubles in keeping order in certain arenas of life.
A couple of points: 1) I love Chinese sports fans. Whether it is football (errm.. soccer) or basketball, they've shown terrific spirit on the international stage. Chinese sports fans are often well-informed, realistically analytical, albeit a bit brash in support of their country. But hey, aren't there a couple of Texans on this board too? 2) I agree with the Chinese posters on this BBS that Sports Reporting in China (whether for Sina or for Xinhua), is one of the outstanding areas where communist party intervention is least noticeable, and hence most free and professional. So please accept my apology here if my message on 'plagiarism as common East Asian sin' sounded like an attack on the Chinese sports media. 3) I was trying to defend the guy! The practice of plagiarism obviously exists, so I guess the best way to make it less egregious (i.e. outstandingly bad), is to demonstrate that it is a common sin among nations with less advanced standards and methods of enforcement for journalistic excellence. I even brought out an example of plagiarism in TAIWAN to prove my point. 4) As for the extended discussion on Napster and rampant Chinese intellectual piracy, I think it is best to take a step back and look at it from a more cosmopolitan view. The US government spends billions of dollars of American taxpayers money to develop defense (anti-missile systems, spy satellites) assets in preparation for a potential thermonuclear conflict with China, the world's last contender for American hegemony. If the recording industry and software industry (which averages some of the highest individual payrolls of any industry) can contribute even a little bit (i.e. through trading losses to piracy) to enhance US-China cross-cultural differences and bring China out of isolation, is it really that bad? Or would you prefer a nation of 1.2billion NorthKorean/Taliban-style fanatics hating America and knowing no better cuz they live in a hermetic society? Believe it or not, software and printed book piracy is what kept prices down in Asia and the goods within the hands of the average consumer. If it weren't for the pirates, the Asian consumers probably won't buy the music/book anyway! Industry vastly over-reports their losses to Asian pirating. How can you lose business you were never gonna get anyway? Try telling a Chinese medical student living on $1000 bucks a year to pay $300 for American biology textbooks. Try telling a Chinese technical students living on $3000 bucks a year to pay $1000 bux to buy the latest software development tools (which is designed for obsolescence in 6 months)... Are you saying that you would prefer that there be no doctors or software engineers in China? To me, an ideal world would be where the rich nations donated their knowledge to educate the poorer nations. But that ain't happening in a capitalist society. What we have, intellectual piracy, is almost the next best thing... And despite Napster, CD sales in the music industry have risen to its highest levels in history. And it's funny that the recent declines in sales have coincided with the industry's crackdown on Napster. Just trying to balance the issues here. I am an economist by training, so I do know about the long-term societal benefits of patents and intellectual property. In this case, I really don't think the harm done to the creators (in terms of reducing the returns to their creativity - hey Bill Gates and Bertelsmann are still getting paid!) is as great as the benefits of freer distribution (world peace, higher living standards in third-world countries, etc.)... 5) As for my comments on the demonisation of Taiwan in Chinese press.... err... I stand by them. I am bitter about it (come on! who wouldn't be, if the OFFICIAL STATE newspapers of any country call your popularly elected President 'the scum of the earth' and claim that the 'rotten stench' of your VP 'would last for eternity'... Here I struggle to come up with a suitable, analogous insult to G. Bush so that our Texan friends can understand...) and I guess it showed in my post... Nonetheless, I apologise to the rest of the board for bringing up this non-sports-related issue...
I'm not touching these topics except to tell W&S to not get too frustrated/p.o'ed about the reaction in here. as was explained b4, we get a little defensive when we feel that Clutch is getting disrespected. and one last thing, Lil, there is nothing wrong with having these types of discussions...but lets take em over to the BBS Hangout..where you will get more responses than you can imagine.
i love W&S too! one of the best new members on this site, and definitely a top-notch, conscientious fellow! hey maybe if he/she is a woman, i can ask her out? the other new chinese posters all seem pretty cool too! let's hope Clutch takes it all in stride... cuz sometimes, with the good (Yao Ming, W&S, enhanced Clutchicty coverage, more Clutch BBS members, more denero for Rockets) comes the bad (a little bit of plagiarism?)?
Anyone who thinks the Chinese as a collective are bad people for doing this probably think Americans, Europeans, Africans, Indians, etc. are also bad people. I mean ALL those people using things like p2p software to trade mp3's can't be Chinese, right? That being said, this guy should be ridiculed for his obvious theft of someone else's work.
In this incident, the chinese reporter is wrong. I've posted a message on sina.com pointing this out. But, it is no surprise to me some people then go on bashing all China. I've lived in China for 25 years, I know what the Chinese brain wash is like. Basically, the government denies people's access to foreign media and they control the domestic media. After so many years of forced brain wash, people don't believe the government media at all. Instead, they try to see the foreign media through short wave radio, internet, etc. In U.S., the media don't do much brain washing about domestic issues because people know what their daily life is like. For international issues, the brain wash is no less than in China but more subtle. The government does not deny people's access to foreign media. Instead, the media constantly feed unbalaced and sometimes false information to people for many many years. The people get so used to their own media, they don't bother to look for other information. As far as I know, U.S. brain wash on China has been going on for at least 11 years, the time that I have been here. One thing I still don't understand is how can all the main stream media act together. Observation: U.S. brain wash is superior and more effective than the Chinese brain wash. They play much better, as in basketball. Even though most Americans are biased on China, they are actually extremely open minded and very nice. They can separate government and people. I've never tried to educate any of my American friends on China issues because I know there is no way I can compete with the main stream media here. My goal in U.S. is not to make Americans understand China better. My goal is to have a better life for myself and my family by contributing to the society. If the U.S. government likes to brain wash their own people on China, and if the people like to be brain washed, it is their freedom and their rights. It is their country after all. Chinese in China don't need to worry about how Americans think of them. They need to worry about how to do their own things right, such as how to make this old Jiang Zemin retire this year. Speaking of basketball, the Chinese fans here have to find the common interest with the American fans. Yao is the common interest right now. But I am afraid Yao bashing will start immediately after the season starts because I don't think Yao will play well in his first season. I hope windandsea can stand up for Yao when the going gets tough. I am selfish and don't enjoy being laughed at, or cursed. So I won't stand up for Yao, but I will still enjoy watching Yao play. I will still enjoy watching Steve and Cat play.
I know this belongs in the Hangout, but this is where the subject came up, so this is where I reply. TechLabor, can you give examples of the "brainwashing" on China that the US government is somehow filtering through private sector media?
How the hell would you translate "Clutch" or "ClutchCity.Net" into Chinese anyway? Obviously you couldn't do a literal translation because it wouldn't make any sense. As for a phonetic translation, I don't know how you would do that with a pictographic based language, unless there are words in chinese that sound similar. Any chinese speakers know?
