Almostready: The ignorance remark isn't for Wang. I was just pointing out he didn't fly there but drive there, like some big-shot-know-all-the-facts stated. But that's not a big deal. However, I'm quite interested in people's opinion on my Shaq question.
Oh my bad. It's past midnight, I am typing like a robot, you know. Shaq, oh? Let RC handle your question.
YEAH!!i totally agree i said that 3 months ago. Good post, what you say is true. I like this new guy.
This scenario is not the same as Wang's situation. I can tell you this though, the US team would do what it takes to put the best team on the floor, especially when it is also what the fans would like to see. I think the China NT failed to do both of these things for the sake of pride and politics.
Wang's appearance just before WBC doesn't excuse the fact he disrespected the CBA and NT by breaching agreement. He skipped practice and failed to keep his word of going back. I know people will say "so what the NT practice sucks", what you guys fail to realize here is that it's not up to Wang to attend or skip NT, it's an agreement he made so that he can play in USA, while his departure is definitely a loss for the CBA. Fair deal to me. A word is a word, Wang failed to keep his word of returning China and join the NT. He's not being a man. If Wang does not want to the respect NT then why should the NT or CBA respect him? Wang's selfishness casted dark clouds on Yao's release. His selfish deed was detrimental to the Rockets and Yao Ming's interest. I hope he can be a man and respect his country's NT, even if it sucks. To accept Wang as a NT member upon his late showing up means accepting Wang having his way with the CBA and NT. That's not acceptable. The Rockets sucked last year, if Francis shows up late for practice, as he say "playing with street ball legends is better for my game", does it make him more respectable? This is really an easy call.
I am wondering we might not know all the reasons why Wang didn't want going back after summer league. It's too weird. That leads me to think maybe (just maybe) we have not heard complete story from Wang. Wang now may be a contract breacher to some of you. But imagine 10 years from now, when looking back and seeing how ridiculous and unreasonable some of the CBA policies are nowadays, Wang might be regarded as a brave man who dares to challenge a mighty power. History has too many such incidents. As the Steve example, I would think if the Rockets find out it is really helpful to Steve's game if he plays street ball, then the Rockets will let him, even encourage him to do it. It's called practical and reasonable. CBA policy makers don't want to be reasonable and they will get punished when Yao Ming rebels one or two years later, imo.
Wang was a product of the old Chinese sports system. He was actually a beneficiary of the idiotic CBA and its policies--until he has a chance to make more in the US. For every 7 footer Wang Zhizhi, there's another 7 footer Wang nobody street vendor selling fake nike shoes in China since resources were very scarce at the time, not every tall child was given a chance. CBA is far from a modern mature organization, but Wang isn't a Saint either. Hiding away from NT requests and cutting off contact are not the way to handle one self even if he doesn't want to pay respect to that old system any more. 10 years from now, Wang will be forgotten unless he can make himself a star in the NBA (Wang isn't the first to defy CBA either, does average joe still miss Majian?) Yao Ming is so likable also because he knows how to handle himself, he's mature.
It's true CBA and Government supported and trained Wang. But that doesn't mean they own him for life. He is not a robot but a person so he will have many desires for success, fame, etc. naturally, especially when he grows up and see the world. I guess CBA people need update their thinking to consider more from players' perspective. Maybe that's part of the modernization. Wang should have employed better strategy, maybe. But I don't know what that could be. He already missed two years after being drafted, and played part time in the last two years. He has paid his due, IMO. And this year is probably his last chance. One day, Yao Ming (or his agents, or his parents) will ask CBA, what's a lump sum which will pay back all the years of your efforts to train me? Because life time 50% is just slavery policy. What about those tens of millions of endorsement, How to divide them? And I think when we look back, it will be as ridiculous as not allowing wearing jeans or curling hairs.
Just like David Stern asked the CBA:" Do you guys know about Avydas Sabonis?" The CBA has made a wise sports and business decision to let Yao, Wang and Bateer play overseas. They could easily hold them for ten more years before let them play overseas like poor Sabonis. The CBA has strong incentives to go abroad, but they also had all the leverage and they must take risks, such as being examplified by a bridge-burning-once-over-the-river Wang. Lay off the CBA and the sports system, if it were not for the free instruction and nutrition Wang, Yao and Bateer received they'll maybe just end up in comedy shows in China. To me the only legit gripe to CBA and Bball officials is the 50% rule, but as an poster pointed out, actually that's also how much the USA government takes away after all the taxes and collectibles from one's paycheck. Considering those money will supposedly go to raising young Bball talents and promoting basketball in China, and might help bringing up another Yao Ming, I don't consider they are wasted money as of now.
So if the Shanghai Rockets want to pry Francis from the Houston Sharks, and Francis is dying to go, it's being oppressive for the Houston Sharks to ask Francis for playing a few games a year? This is business, in business you milk every opportunity to make yourself better. As long as you honor your contract and quit playing tricks you are not lacking in the business ethic aspect. NBA players are robots, face it, it's part of business, they go where their teams trade them to under whichever conditions . If Les feels like it, Francis will be playing for Clippers tommorow for a second round pick. Francis will be forced to go even if he has a family in Houston. Ain't many choices there, the same with the CBA. Come on, is it so easy to be pumped up to bash the CBA at every chance?
I don't think in the Wang incident, it's just business involved. The way CBA and Chinese BBall authority doing business is based on their outdated thinking and principles. They are trying to make money in a wrong and harmful way. Wang is the latest victim of their stupid policies ( not just their business tactics). Yao will be next. They are not milking business opportunities, but kill the cow to get milk, IMO. In your example, NBA players don't have complete freedom, but that's associated with any type of job. That lack of freedom is within a reasonal bound. Les will not ship Francis to Clipper for a scrub, under any reasonable circumstance. Same not apply to CBA. They want the power to order Yao, Wang back to China at ANY TIME (even they would not do it). But in any modern business environment, can you do that? Sure, you have a leverage, you can ask anything and may even get it. But my point is if someone stands up and fight against it, I am all for him.
IMO, Wang made the BEST decision in his life given all the information. He is finally a free man. Legally, ethically, he has nothing wrong! He has won so many championships for China as well as his Chinese team. He has more than paid back everything. Of course, if someone believes he should be a SLAVE to CBA and try to RATIONALIZE it, then it is another story. By the way, there is no signed contract between Wang and the CBA. There is only an oral agreement between the Dallas Mavericks and the CBA. Since the contract between the Mavericks and Wang is already over, Dallas does not even need to do anything for CBA anymore. For a good contract, you need to be fair for both parties. You think the 50% cut (plus more tax paid to the Chinese IRS) is fair ? Unfortunately your opinion does not count. It is all up to Yao Ming to decide if it is fair or not. If Yao wants to break it, he will find a way to break it. Once he is in the US, he can always hire a good lawyer to renegotiate a contract or file a lawsuit in a US court. You think the CBA will defend itself in a US court? I am pretty sure the contract between Yao and the CBA is not sophisticated with CBA's expertise on legal issues. Oh, it might be the first time they think this in legal terms. Before, they thought they owned every player for life. Again, NBA players are not ROBOTs, especially not slaves. They can force issues with teams. Your example with Francis is funny because Francis forced Vancouver to trade him to the Rockets. If a player does not like the team, he can always say "TRADE ME"!
Life time 50% is a strech. It's for "Commercial games outside China" while he's registered under CBA. BTW, I'm not totally convinced of this 50% thing actually will be implemented on Yao. As far as I know, Wang hasn't hand in anything yet! Until I hear Yao Ming or his agents or CBA say it, I won't put too much into it. As of now, Yao has signed a "seperate financial deal" with Sharks. But according to that 50% rule, Shark's share is supposed to be a part of 50%. Not to mention there is probablly complex tax issues involved here. As all Americas will tell you, they need to pay US taxes whereever they earned it. Now, how many Chinese Student in America actually pays Chinese Taxes all the while enjoying the US tax examption? I won't be suprised China would want to tight it for those who earn millions and can afford it.
I'm sure Francis was robotic and an automaton for forcing a trade from Vancouver to Houston. He was an android straight out of a Philip K. Dick short story for signing a 6 year extension with the Rockets. Les held a gun to his head and said he would imprison his family if he didn't do it. And Houston is in Alaska. (Yes, that is sarcasm.) I might add that I have no clue as to the sexual orientation of the Chinese coach or the CBA as a whole (or a body). I cannot attest to the accuracy of the title of this thread.
It's not pay back. It's called an honor to play for your country. Ask Sun Wen. There is. It's signed by Wang's former agent in his concensus. Wang is denying responsibility for that sig now. Fair? I don't know. But you can only renegate on a contract if it's signed under duress, which is not the case here. many US firms signed "unfair" contracts with China, they live with it since they covet the future markets. Now you think they can all throw those away? You think Fancis got a good reputation or become a hero (expect for us rockets funs )because of this? China excluded Wang from current NT. It may not be a wise decision, but nothing wrong.
Yeah yeah he's god for winning a few CBA championships. We are talking about NT here and Wang's won jack in competitive tourneys for the NT. Even he did he should as its his job and duty. Boy Bill Gates will be happy to hear that he doesn't need to honor his words as he paid so much tax money. Legally Wang is wrong in that even an oral agreement is a contract. Ethically Wang is wrong 'cuz he draws blank checks. As to your Wang being a slave to CBA that's bull. That's very offensive to Wang as well. You mean Wang agreed to be CBA's slave by showing up to attend the NT? Since David Stern is willing to only fork out 35,0000 dollars for compensation, I don't see why the CBA doesn't want get compensated in other ways. 50% is a bit high, but talk about extortion, try be a Japanese and hand over as high as 80% of income tax to the government. I guess you are saying that all Japanese are economic slaves for their government huh? Nice. Yao filing a lawsuit against CBA? In USA? Haha..sorrrrrryy but that's the funniest idea I've ever heard in a long long time. Yao signed his contract and agreement as a Chinese citizen, in China, with Chinese institutions. It's not within the US jurisdiction and if Yao needs to sue the CBA he needs to file the case in a Chinese court, being whether a Chinese or American citizen. Please, brush up your common law knowledge before you sprout. Funny you are in support of players forcing trades, I guess you are in favor of Snottie Pippen forcing Rocket's hands? Why NBA players are not robots? They are TRADED like commodities. Team dictates where they go, who they play for, at any price it deems apt, regardless of such players will. Players can force a trade but that's only limited to the minority elite players. I was shocked when I first learnt that teams can trade players, I thought it hurts one pride very much when a team cheapsells him. Like that three players we trade just for Eddie. They don't like it, but what can they do but to obey?
I wish China to be powerful in every field in the world arena. But more importantly I wish people who represent China to be reasonable and play by commonly accepted fair rules, thus giving China a good image. Even though one can leverage hard to reach a maximum gain in short term, that practice will do damage in long term. On this aspect, we really need learn something from westerners. Let's take a look at the image of CBA and China BBall in the US. First, Majian had an unhappy ending. Then, Wang was delayed two years and later had some many headaches. Then Yao Ming was delayed for drafting, couldn't make to the draft party, couldn't sign even today (for god sake, this is the #1 pick and Rockets are waiting to prepare for next season), then cannot make to the training camp this year, and possiblly many years to come. Then this 50% salary crazy and slavery thing, etc, etc. This is called tooooooooo much red tapes. I bet any NBA team GM and owner think about China, their stomach hurts. Sure, CBA now is having upper hand, because they can hold Yao. But in the meantime, people will treat China's CBA as some primitive animal, under-developed and don't deserve respect. My point is play by rule and be fair will benefit China's BBall in long term. Of course, this maybe too much to ask for those short-sighted dumb officials.
I see where you are coming from, but I urge you to consider some facts before totally dismissing CBA officials as shorted sighted and dumb. 1. The fact that they are willing to let go of their best players, which is to give up short term gains in return for long term benefits. 2. Mavs didn't even notice the Bayi Rockets before they drafted Wang. How would you feel if your team member if being recruited without being noticed? The CBA has been disrespected but they are open for talk. That's a reason why Wang's delayed for 2 years, he's still lucky to be under CBA instead of Sabonis. 3. I see that you think the CBA officials are being greedy. Frankly I want what you wish Yao for too. I don't like Yao playing games in summer as well, but keep in mind that those CBA officials are taking risks and pressure while letting Yao Ming go. There is constant debate in China and I'm sure those officials who supports Yao to go have taken some heat. Many people are against letting China's elite players go abroad for 1. fear that they become foreign citizens 2. fear that their departure will cause the CBA's downfall, just like the NBA feared what'd happen once Jordan leaves. Plz, those CBA officials deserve some props for taking all the pressure and should not to be called PIGs.
It is funny to read the contract issue. We know there is no complete contract in this world. Therefore, every contract is incomplete. I would be very much interested to know what is the enforcement mechanism here. What is the penalty for Yao Ming if he refuses to play for CBA anymore once he comes to the US? Does the contract specify clearly ? If not, then the contract is pretty much useless for CBA. Even if it does, who is going to enforce the contract? A US court? So the argument is CBA can only rely on Yao's patriotism. Then why is there a contract? Well, maybe there is a contract between the CBA and the Rockets for Yao Ming to go back to play for the CBA whenever he is called. However, if Yao does not want to play for the CBA, Houston can not do much except not allowing Yao to play for the Rockets. But will the Rockets do it? More likely the Rockets have to trade Yao away to recoup its losses. Therefore, IMO, for Yao to go back to play for the CBA, a contract is pretty much useless as it does not have an enforcement mechanism. It is the same issue for Wang. Let's for the time being suppose he has a contract with the CBA, and he is not going back, who is going to force him to go back? You can argue strongly that the only leverage the CBA has is the letter to FIBA to allow Yao to play for the Rockets, after that, CBA can not do a thing! CBA knows it, Yao knows it, Wang knows it, everybody knows it. Under the circumstances, should not the CBA be nicer to Yao and Wang ? Where is this 50% salary if Yao does not want to pay ? To put a gun to Yao's head when Yao is in the US ? I am just trying to rationalize CBA's behavior and I am pretty much puzzled by its behavior.
