Not if you are in a city that was nuked. I assume all the major cities in US would be nuked if China lost every city east of xian.
Ottoman, have you been keeping up with what is going on between Taiwan and China recently? Taiwan's economy is growing more and more integrated with China each year, hundreds of thousands of Taiwan businessmen are working in China. Many Taiwan companies have shifted headquarters to mainland in order to better access Chinese market. If this keeps up and Taiwan do not declare independence (essentially declare war), the two sides will be united less than 50 years through peaceful means, I bet that would really piss of some off hawks in Washington.
I would expect you are one of the people on this board that would understand this general perfectly since he thinks exactly like you. He is thinking, US is just a paper tiger, if we nuke New York they would surrender.
This general should be forced to resign. If he isn't, the US should "cool" it's relations with China until we are satisfied that this wasn't a "put up" job by the PRC government. Countries with nuclear weapons that have rational governments leave things like this unsaid, if they expect to have "normal" relations with the country being threatened. This is unacceptable, and shouldn't be tolerated by a US government, and certainly it should be made clear that until this is cleared up, we will not have "business as usual." In my opinion. Keep D&D Civil!!
It's very disturbing to see how a couple of lunatic statements from a delusional two-star Chinese General can cause another (and probably a few more) soul insomnia this side of Pacific Ocean. Since Japan is serendipitously brought into the discussion, here's Japanese Culture 101 for you all. To quote in its entirety the post by MontyMarch (which I think deserves to be called the post of the year for its bona fide portrayal of the Far East mystery) in another thread (related or unrelated, depending on what you are looking at): "the problem of japan to a westerner is that it is still in a modern "middle age", the meiji reformation which last 25 years only open the country to modern technology and science, and not to modern social norm, that why you will find child porno everywhere in japan and no women ever rise to a CEO position in any company.... it is modern only in appearence, but the society is as out of date as in the middle age... it have press freedom, but the press never critcise the government, it have a judiciacy but it never end in a aquittal in any criminal case, it love anything foreign, but don't want no foreigner living in their soil, they have democracy but they elected the same old gurad of the ruling party in nearly every election, the have a brilliant mind and big dream (just look at their comic and anime industry which are both imaginative and creative), yet they never want their dream to come true, afraid of the consequence and its baggage..... And their most popular personality is a actress who get both the man and a good career in TV while any japanese women are expected to quit their job and stay at home to take care of their family...... it have even become a public row when a popular female singer bring her son to her work and get critised for not staying home with her son..... the health ministry find out about a case of mad cow disease but it wait until all the meat are sold before announcing it while it ban any us import when the us have only a single case of BSE and refuse to lift the ban even now.... it adopted a mercantile economic policy exporting car and electronic while banning any agricultural import ( you would be surprised how much a water melon cost in japan)..... and when you see people trying to imitate the hairdo of your prime minister, (imageine if everyone in the us have a Bush harido, it's would truely be a MAD world) and seeing personal imitation of some female singer all over the place in japan, while the most popular music group is a bunch of 14 years old girls (lolita), you knew their is a problem with their national identity.... they talked about judicial reform for jury trial for the last 30 years but they never implement it......if you ever seen any good japanese movie like the cop movie odoru daisosasen, the story will never happen in real life, because the society is so rigid, people will choose suicide and social withdrawal rather than to face the problem.... every year there are always some old couples who could rather starve to death than to seek social help.... it was not a friendly country for any outsider, just ask the ethic korean japanese, who have no right in their adopted homeland, that maybe why the korean never lost any love for japan because most japanese just despise their japan-borned korean countryman.... it's all come down to that all the reform in japan is always economic and never civil and social, they have no civil right march, the government is always right and you get bureaucratic stonewalling when you have a different opinion than the norm.... their show-biz stars even have to host a press conference to annouce their marriage much like a ritual, you would think why are they so uptight..... there are more christians in korea and china respectively than anywhere in japan and you wonder why when they open up their country much earlier than the other two.... it's a man dominating country much like rest of the world but it is a skewed society when the minority, the Ainu, okinawan, korean and chinese are looked down upon and discriminated in their own country..... Ainu is the personification of the indian without the casino and any social benefit... you would feel akin to a chinese, japanese or korean, but if you tried to live over in japan, you would know what a true foreigner feel.... i am not a hater of japan, but i see a japan so differnet from the tv drama, the comic, anime and game console that portrait the modern day japan...the bullying, the discrimination that is ingrained in the system. the strange thing is that they even discriminate against oversea japanese returning home, but at least it show equality to all outsiders...... i also see people rebelling against the system in the baby boom generation or the generation X, but to see real change in japan, we may have to wait another generation when they would be able to lead the country like they are trying to do in the movie "odoru"......"
If the US bombed the nuke plants in NK, and NK retaliated by hitting Japan and the US bases in SK. Would China try to save NK again and get involved with the US militarily? This would seem a more likely scenario than war over Taiwan. There is too much money involved between China, Taiwan and the US to get bloody over. Whereas NK has nothing to lose.
"theological ontologocal philosophy"? How this convoluted chimera could possibly be conjured up is beyond me. Using mechanical translator to grasp the intricacy and the delicacy of the geopolitics of the Far East may be expedient, but certainly not perspicacious. And to apply a dichotomous view every time China, Taiwan, and US are in the same discussion is definitely pernicious to a thinking process for reasoning. But it perhaps explains the birth of "地神小", something no logographic language using human being in the Far East can even dream of, let alone understand.
The current Chinese government is not stupid. No way they got involved in a war with US over NK. The only war possible with US in the horizon is conflict over Taiwan.
I doubt China would get into a war with the U.S. If anything, it's all about saving "face". The Chinese and U.S. will do what the U.S. did with Russia during the cold war in Germany. Each will move their offensive an inch back one at a time until both feel safe from embarassement. After all that's China's been through in the pass they know that the economic future and thus political stabilty depends on the capital investments from both Taiwan (Taiwan has the most money in China at the moment) and U.S. Their government knows that the main reason for it's population's content is economic growth, but saving "face" is deeply entrenched into Chinese culture. They're not stupid, no Chinese government offical wants a repeat of the late 60's China. If war does happen, the U.S. would win, but with more casualities then it will ever have in it's history along economic disaster. China only have a few ICBM's that can reach east of Calorado, but ICBM's arn't the only way to deliver Nukes. Anyone with a backpack can cross Mexico or in a sub and take out a quarter of New York. The expensive carriers we have are target practice as Van Riper has proven in the mellenium challenge. China has super sonic missles that moves at over mach 3. Think of them as unpiloted Kamakazi's. There's no way the Aegus guns can stop a barage of those. The good news is that we have subs that can launch MIRV's in a minute's notice. We also have a great GPS Satelite network (those things are harder to knock down then most people believe) for launching cruise missles. We also have the best Subs groups in the world. (don't believe the hype about American soldiers being the best trained in the world... i'd take an Isreali or British solider over an american any day). It's improbable there'll be war, but we'll win... though you or one of your family member might not survive.
If the nuke war would happen between US and China, the Earth would be destroyed. You may survive in the first attack, but will surely die after a couple of years because of the environmental disaster. US alone has a Nuclear Arsenal (~10, 000 nuke heads) enough to destroy the Earth dozens of times. China's nuke arsenal (~1000 nuke heards) is enough to destroy the Earth a few times.
Yeah, I'm sure this is a viable suggestion. If we couldn't force the chinese to hand back our pilots -from the EP3 spy plane incident- then what makes you think we could bully them on this latest incident. A lot of americans still do not realise that China is not a nation that is to be bullied with; if it was, then trust me, we would have done it a long time ago cause our country knows a thing or two about bullying other countries.
I think it's typical saber rattling to make China look big and bad. One could even claim that it was deliberate from the PRC to boost its bargaining position because it would give some glimpse of what many Chinese believe while not officially endorsing the party line. Many have mentioned before on this thread, but Asian politics center around saving face (unlike Clinton or Bush, or many of the seedy European politicians) and keeping a self importance that would get their voice heard. Undoubtedly, if this was the official party line, then several responses would be made by the US, but much like Rummy's Old Europe this is on the surface. Underneath the scenes, you'll have French intelligence working with American, French servicemen still in Afghanistan, the Saudis increasing the oil quota, and a PRC helping us deal with North Korea. On our end, we rein in Chen and repeat the rules to him...
I'm late to this debate bul I'll add 2 cents. I've been to mainland China (including Xian) many times. Wonderful place that is growing so fast in certain places it's scary! Been to Taiwan, Hong Kong and most of the capital cities in Asia. It's my favorite part of the world. #1 Some of you say this general should resign or be forced to step down. No way. The PRC government feels no need at all to make this gesture to us. If they decide to chop this guys legs off, we won't find out about it. Take my word for it on this. #2 This guy doesn't represent decision makers. While he probably represents a minority opinion within the military and political ranks, his views will not carry the day. #3 The U.S. is committed to defending Taiwan. Our worldwide credibility is at stake. The PRC knows this. We have told them. The U.S. will not flaunt this openly because we don't want to embarass/offend the PRC. The price of bluntly saying this in public would be hard core diplomatic hostility from the PRC. Just one example: Forget any hope of assistance on DPRK. The PRC would do everything they could to stifle us, which wouldn't take much. Apply this principle to other areas such as terrorism, the Middle East, Venezuela (Hugo Chavez) where overt PRC diplomatic hostility could make things much more difficult for us than they are now. #4 The decision makers in the PRC are very deliberate, almost to the point of "paralysis by analysis". Now that China has developed economically, they have a lot to lose in a military confrontation with us. It is unlikely in the UTTERMOST EXTREME the U.S. and China will use nukes against each other. For one, we have about 50 times the number of nuclear weapons they have, so they know it is suicidal. For two, we will not use nukes against them first in a Taiwan dispute because we can win decisively without them in a blowout. Yes, we would have a huge amount of casualties, but the victory would be a huge embarassment to the PRC. This is why I doubt they will invade Taiwan. I'll leave it at that for now. There's a lot more to say but I hate reading long winded posts so I'm trying to be considerate. China and Asia are probably my favorite subjects to debate on.
there will be no nuclear war between China and the U.S. both will completely destroy each other completely. even though America has way more nukes, it does not matter cuz china has more than enough nukes to wipe america out completely too...and their new 094 SSN nuclear submarine will guarantee that their nukes will fly here....so value of having huge amounts of nuclear weapons is vastly overrated.... a war between U.S. and China will be no fun at all.....and the U.S. may soon see an advanced Chinese military force in the near future and beyond.
