[Chicago Sun-Times] Rose Wants Legacy To Include Clutch Play

This.

Miami Heat winning the championship gets 0 respect from me.

Dallas of last year, as much as I hate them, is a role model championship team.

 

Then we're talking about 2 different things here. You care more about approach than results.

Most fans care about results, which is winning, than approach.

I'd trade 11 Yao Mings, the epitome of teamwork and ultimate professional, for a Kobe Bryant in a heartbeat. And I don't like Kobe Bryant as a player one bit. But he's a greater player, and what he does on the court contributes to winning, which is the bottom line.

 

Aside from the missed free throws Rose was hitting ridiculous shots in the 4th. Rip was out at the 3pt line which isn't his strong point and if you look at Bosh, he was behind boozer ready to fly out on Hamilton who was shooting 4-16 and 0-1 on threes. It was actually a much better decision not to give him the ball. He just missed, so everyone has to hate.

 

I think people are overly critical of superstars in general. If the shot went in, he's a hero. But b/c he missed, he didn't make the right play. It's absurd, unless you have been Melo this year of course.

He's their best player. And you always want the ball to be in your best player's hands. Rose thought he made the right decision, so you live with it. What's the point of second-guessing one way or another.

MJ has made many game winners over 2 guys. Should we tell him next time to pass the ball if he thinks he has a good shot? Same case with Kobe Bryant and other great players.

In every sport, every coach wishes the ball is in their best player's hands at the end of the game and let them go to work.

I'm sure Thibs doesn't have any regret over what transpired, and would allow Rose to do the same thing again.

REMEMBER: Rose passed to Scalabrine for a game winning shot v. the Pacers several games earlier and he missed, and people questioned why did Rose pass the ball, and not take it himself. The hypocrisy of the media, or fans, on expectations of what the "right" basketball play is ridiculous.

 

If you're a fan that cares more about results, why do you say that you don't like Kobe as a player one bit?

 

Do we really need to go to who Kobe Bryant is a person, and what he has done off the court? The image he tried to front before the rape trial, and how he changed for the public after the rape trial?

But he is a winner. As a fan, I can only judge him on what he does on the court, and he is the winningest player in the modern era (post MJ era) with 5 rings, and was the main player on 2 of them.

 

You just said you don't like Kobe as a player, though. You meant to say "as a human being"?

 

Oh my fault then. Yes, I meant as a person. Hell, I don't like a lot of players and what they do off the court (Big Ben for instance).

But again, I can only judge on their productions on the court. They are paid to produce, and are paid to help their team win games.

 

OK, but I'm not really even referring to who they are off the court. I'm a fan of certain characteristics in basketball players -- in particular guys who value teamwork over individualism. Results, in itself, is not a good reason to be a fan of someone, IMO.

 

You don't have to be a fan of a player to appreciate their body of work and what they accomplished in their field. Again, I'm not a fan of Kobe Bryant.

And again, NBA, or any other sports, is a team game. You can't win by yourself, and a player who values individualism as the most important thing in his career will not come close to winning a championship.

Kobe has a lot of faults as a player and person, but one thing you cannot doubt is his drive to win, and whatever he will do in order to win.

 

What I'm saying is that his drive to be "the best" trumps his drive to win. That in itself is enough for him to contribute tremendously to winning. But it also leads to times -- to the detriment of his team -- when instead of making the right play he elects to make the "hero" play.

Anyway, what I said initially is that I prefer certain types of players to others. I'm not denying that Kobe is an all-time great.

 

Then that's not Kobe. He had a championship team and chose the individual route. The fact that he eventually led LA back to the promised land years later doesn't change the fact that he and Shaq put their individualism ahead of winning.

Kobe is great, but if we are knocking dudes for being selfish then he isn't the guy to brag on. And the ironic thing is the guy who did put winning first, and took less money to do so, is constantly hated.

Edit: Response moreso for Groogrux.

 

Yeah, the confusion about "result" is that players like Kobe and Shaq have always been selfish. They have "result" only because they are enormously talented. They can win being selfish. Who knows how much MORE could they have won if they cared more about the team.

 

I much more prefer the attitude of Bryant, of wanting to beat the best while being the man, over Lebron, which is wanting to team up with the best so they can beat up on the little guy. The former more closely mirrors the attitude of guys like Bird and Jordan. You have to have balls to run off a guy like Shaq - at that point it's all on you to back it up. Lebron would never willingly put that heavy a burden on himself.

 

But that's the thing, he's not wanting to team up with "the best". Wade is not considered the best player in the game and the Heat were in 1st round purgatory prior to last season. The same goes for Bosh. He chose to get the same amount of help that most other title teams have. Why is it lame to put yourself in the same position, as far as supporting cast, as most of these other dudes when they won titles? The Heat are no more talented than the Lakers when they repeated or the Celtics when they won before that. The Heat don't compare talent wise to any team the Bulls or Celtics won a title with (MJ and Bird eras). His "help" doesn't compare to what Kobe had when he got his first 3 rings.

And Kobe's attitude led to disaster until his GM pulled off a miracle trade, which got him a lot more help.

I agree you do have to have balls to run Shaq off. Luckily for him his GM was able to pull a miracle after he gave up and demanded to be traded so he could have better help. Folks seem to forget that.

 

Kobe was a champion, he also wants to be the MJ in the champion team roster no matter how hard it is. And he made it.
LBJ also wants to be a champion, he realizes it's hard and he doesn't mind being Pippen.He does what Pippen does in clutch too that's passing the ball to MJ.

That's exactly what happened. And they are both selfish.

 

Yes, he made it, after he tried to force his way out via a trade. Yet we blast the guy who honored his contract and left via free agency, lol.

As far as the "be Pippen", blah blah blah. Not falling for that bait again.

 

LOL, Wade took Heat to 5th seed, there's no doubt they are a contender with the addition of Bosh. Of course LBJ woudn't mind riding the coattail there.

On the contrary, Kobe had a team with NBDL caliber players barring Odom. He had to put up 35 points to be 7th seed. One addition of Gasol (comparable to Bosh talent and achievment wise) and somehow they are the most talented ever.

As I said many times, peope won't critizie LBJ if he and Bosh won a championship. But joing Wade who's a fmvp and top 5 franchise player himself is rather different.

Lebron nuthugger at its best.

 

It's very clear Kobe never wanted to leave LA. He's demanding managment to get some NBA caliber players around him. He had to put up 35ppg to be in playoff. He's not gonna lead that kind of roster to championship, and nobody takes them as a contender.
On the other hand, LeBron has had a team that won regular season twice, what more do you ask management? Everyone wants to be in the position, just won every series with HCA and you are champion. 3 times in a row his team was an overwhelming favorite, and he blew it nontheless. In fact, no team won b2b 65 games and didn't win championship before LeBron. That's what historical choking means.

And yes, he's Pippen in heat, last year's playoff stats proved it.

at s

 

Yes, a team with a frontline of Bynum/Gasol/Odom and a sharpshooter like Fisher is a contender. If not, then feel free to name 3 other teams with just as much talent from 2008-2010. The Heat do not have more talent than the Celtics or Laker teams that won titles from 08-10.

I understand you want to excuse Kobe for tryinf to force a trade to get more help, as opposed to honoring his contract then trying to get more help, but revisionist history won't change what really happened.

And as far as historical choking, that would be being upset by the heavily underdog Detroit Pistons in 04 because someone shot them out of the series (was there a bigger Finals upset this decade???), quitting in Game 7 and blowing a 3-1 series lead or losing to another underdog in 08 while blowing a 20 point lead at home and getting routed by a NBA record 39 points to close the series. All of those instances are quite historical, literally.