i called it before the draft, and i'll stick to it now...the ROY will be Darius Miles. Marc Jackson is Ike Austin of a few years ago. good enough to surprise you until you take notice and shut his ass down. see: Don Amaechi. also, i'm not so sure we don't need fizer. he's a 3/4 who needs a little time to develop. he'd get at least 15 minutes per game behind motay and at least 10-15 minutes behind shandon, if he is productive. he's the perfect insurance policy if shandon bolts, cause he could be a big 3 (and, no, he would not be playing out of position, because rudy would allow him to post [lord knows no one else on the rox - except for shandon - wants to]). and if mo bolted, he could step right in at the 4, thus allowing us to go after a 5 in the draft. i've loved fizer since college, cause he has a nasty disposition and a boatload of skills. if there's any way we can get him without giving up all our picks (esp. our own #1) or with kt, i say jump on it like hopscotch. ------------------
I second that, DaDakota. Fizer is suffering in Chi-town and playing WAY out of position. It is a sad thing to watch. He shows flashes of offensive brilliance at times, and has had a few nice games. I would truly love it if Fizer were to get traded to us. Oh, and to add to the height issue, Fizer did infact measure at 6'9" with his hoop shoes on. Maurice Taylor is EVERY BIT of 6'9". Have you seen the guy? He is huge! When I went to the Rockets game, I stood about 12 feet away from the guy and he is a monster, and I am 6'2". ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Not that i have anything against Fizer, quite the opposite, but i just don´t see a trade for Fizer something worth "bracing ourselves for" even though it fits what the spanish announcer guy said. If Clutch knows, and i´m sure he wouldn´t be fooling around with our head if he didn´t, i would guess that the deal has more impact than this one. Still hoping for SAR, i guess. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
Fizer is a very profitable project. He has the ability. I've mentioned in another thread what skills he needs to aquire, but they are well within his reach. I'd give up a draft pick to get him at the starting PF. I'd hesitate to give up Thomas for him. Thomas fits our ball club perfectly. ------------------ humble, but hungry.
I just don't see what Fizer brings that KT does not. As much as folx berate KT for being under 40% It's ok for Fizer to be under 40% once again we are beseiged by the dreaded P-Word POTENTIAL Rocket River ------------------
kt is under 40% because he can't hit layups. fizer is under 40% because brand owns the low blocks. ------------------
just think... with fizer, motay can float from 18ft. marcus can own that low block and, on occasion, switch out with motay @ 18ft. he is kt with finishing ability, meanness, and yes...that damn P word.... ------------------
Finishing ability? With, what... a 37% something fg? Excuse me if i´m not too hyped up about this. Not that i don´t want the guy. It´s just that the "p" word strikes a raw nerve when a think about our very own Kelvin "brick hands and soft ankle" Cato. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
Does everyone actually watch Fizer play? I actually live in Chicago and am tortured enough to watch the Bulls play. There is NO WAY I would trade KT for Fizer. He does play out of position, but there are plenty of opportunities for him to take his man (usually smaller) to the hole and he settles for an outside jumper that misses. KT hussles and provides some energy, while Fizer seems to be just another player on the floor. ------------------
I hate the word "potential" too, when a player is obviously underperforming. But... Fizer has played what, 30 games into his pro career? That's too early for him to go from "high lottery pick" to "guy who's worse than KT". If you would have made that deal before the draft, you should make it now. Alot of players, especially big men, don't mature until their second or third year in the NBA. ------------------ "Thirty-seven?" -Randall, Clerks www.clutchtown.com
in an effort to stop going out as much , i ordered the nba league pass again this year. so, yes, i do get to watch fizer play. in fact, i like watching the bulls play, along with vancouver, toronto, the clippers, etc. yes, i have noticed that marcus does not always take the smaller man to the rim. however, i wonder how much of that is tim floyd trying to teach him to be a small forward. nahmean? he's always been able to hit the j, even in college, but it seems as if now his philosophy is to look for the jumper first. i really think it's a shame, because the times floyd does have him on the block, he looks MUCH more comfortable. the funny thing is that he and kt are so similar, yet so different. kt is a natural power forward who seems to want to play the 3 spot. he can post up but can't hit a damn layup. fizer is a natural 4 who is being forced to play a true "3" (spot up jumpers & occasional posts), but can't consistently hit the jumper. seems like a good swap to me, and i'd be willing to throw in a pick or two (if the extra pick was a 2nd rounder or 2) to get him. kt is what the bulls want fizer to be, really. and fizer is what the rockets want kt to be. as for the comment on 37% shooting = a bad finisher... it's difficult to finish 18 foot jumpers when you spent you entire college career posting up and dunking on one or two players. he never has played the 3 spot, until now. kenny, on the other hand can't hit a freakin' layup. he has the best footwork on the team, and the worst finishing ability. A PERFECT FORMULA FOR FRUSTRATION! ------------------
I sure in HELL hope the Rockets don't do this trade, or any other move that let's Chicago off the hook. If they want off the hook, it has to be for much more, especially if they are considering moving that pick for Reef. For that matter, the Rockets should be the ones making the deal for Reef. SCREW THE BULLS!! ------------------ "ON-BEE-TAH-BULL!!", Hakeem Abdul Olajuwon, alumnus, University of Houston
tron, thx for the input. We need more scouting reports on Fizer. verse, you know I think highly of your opinion. Tell me this: Don't you think finishing is a simpler thing to fix, than Fizer learning and executing NBA moves, especially for a short PF? I'll take the guy who is showing NBA moves and shooting the layup too hard, over the guy who hasn't shown he can even get to the rim in the NBA, yet. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited January 09, 2001).]
This is in part about footspeed. Thomas has amazing footspeed on his moves and is beating his man. He doesn't have a soft finish. Fizer has good footspeed, but is being matched by his opponent because he has no ballhandling skills. He no longer has the edge he had in college. The baseline behind the backboard reverse has been taken away. I think both weaknesses are very teachable,but the ballhandling problem Fizer has may be easier to correct. Having a soft finish in the lane is a body control issue. I don't think that is as easy to teach in my opinion. Thomas will have a hard time correcting that problem, but it can be done. Chris Dudley, uhhmmm, was able to fix it, but he didn't have a footspeed problem either. I would never trade Thomas for Fizer. Thomas is such a good fit with what we are trying to do, but Fizer is a nice addition. He's a potential Starter if he can fit in on the post. ------------------ humble, but hungry. [This message has been edited by PhiSlammaJamma (edited January 09, 2001).]
heyp: RE: THOMAS: though it may sound strange, i think it's extremely hard to teach someone to finish. i mean, you're not talking about wide open breakaway layups. these are "high traffic" shots with bodies bumping you and the rim shielding from your vision. kt just can't do it. in fact, i can't recall a single game where he's done it consistently. if you notice, it's not that they're rimming out (which would imply it's a touch problem). his shots are beating up the backboard! they're ricocheting off the back iron. they're wedging between the rim and backboard and skipping off. they're squirting out of his hands! this is not that easy to fix, because how do you fix it? look at nba guards. how many nba guards can you think of that started as bad finishers, but became excellent finishers? i can think of a few that improved slightly, but none that became outstanding at it. the only reason more isn't made of that fact is because most guards can compensate for that deficiency by having a good jump shot. kt doesn't have that luxury. the rockets can't afford to give him that luxury. the man needs to finish in the paint. as for fizer, what he hasn't shown is a consistent ability to beat his man off the dribble (facing up). ok. so what? i wouldn't want him doing that anyway. i'd want either his back to the basket, or him spotting up for the 18 footer - much like kt does now. how many times do you see kt beat his man off the dribble? try none. he may beat him with his back to the basket with that same, albeit effective, spin move. but never facing up. what i believe is that fizer could play the "kt role" better than kt could dream of. fizer (correct me if you disagree tron) has shown the ability to score/finish with his back to the basket. i'd take that, coupled with less jumpers, out of the "kt role" over kenny thomas double clutching on 3s and missing chippies. i know i'm getting long winded, but... i think the rox "o" would flow so much smoother, too. while kt is a smart player (no doubt) as far as moving to the open spot and rotating on offense, fizer could put the hammer down. i think you can teach him the system. and i think he's smart enough to know when and how to rotate. but teaching a man to finish is a task much larger than that. and i just don't have that faith in kenny thomas.
I think Morris will be a much better pro than Fizer. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
The pick from Chicago can be no better than 19. It is top-20 protected in '01, top-19 protected in '02 and top-18 protected in '03. If, the Bulls aren't that good in '03, we get 2 #2s. I'm assuming we get the #2s. If so, we're talking Kenny Thomas, the Rockets pick (which would be around #12, imo), and 2 #2s for Marcus Fizer. If the Rockets would take Fizer at all, I'd think this is a fairly equitable trade. Unfortunately, as is, the trade wouldn't go through. The Rockets would have to put someone else in to equalize salaries -- Bullard or Rogers work. ------------------ RealGM Rockets Draft Obligations Summary http://www.gaffordstudios.cjb.net/
I would not do : KT/#12/ 2 second rounders for Marcus Fizer. ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown
NO WAY i would this deal. Fizer isn´t worth THAT much with the promise of 2 strong drafts coming up. The picks are worth a lot more as a bargaining chip that lands a proven player instead, IHMO. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
I didnt want to get back into this Fizer debate b/c the only way it will be resolved imho is to just wait and watch him develop. There is no way the pro-Fizer folks are going to convince the anti-Fizer ones that he can be a good player and vice versa. However, I decided to put in my 2 cents here b/c this is getting very interesting and verse is doing an absolutely excellent job of presenting the facts. There is no way anyone is going to be able to convince me otherwise on my opinion of KT. I realize the guy is a good passer and appears to hustle on the court, but I dont think his finishing issue can really be fixed. KT is undersized at 6-7 and does not make up for his lack of size in any special way ie. exceptional explosivess or really long arms. His footwork is nice and all, but the ball doesnt go into the basket. I felt before this season and stated it frequently in the offseason that Brand and Fizer would not be a good PF mix. It is unrealistic to expect Fizer to play full time at the 3 spot and try to continuously take SFs off the dribble all the time. Thats not his game and that is what Tim Floyd is trying to make him do. Maybe Floyd feels he can convert Fizer to the 3 spot but that will require a significant learning curve and many games where he looks like a bust. Ofcourse the casual fan who never saw the guy play in college does not realize that and just calls him out and says he is worse than KT. Anyone remember how much of a learning curve Jamison had to go through his rookie yr due to a position conversion? The whole world was calling him a bust. It is just not fair to call out Fizer after 30 games. I watched Fizer several times in college and really liked what I saw. I honestly feel he is going to be a double digit rebounder in this league when he starts getting to play his natural game. Fizer's explosiveness is significantly more than KT's, and he plays with a major mean streak. In addition to that, he has an excellent set of hands. Also, I read some remark in this thread that KT has better ball handling than Fizer which is not true. Fizer is a very fluid player that handles the ball very well for a PF. Its rare you see a 265 pound bulky forward that has such good hands, a major mean streak, moves so well and is so fluid with his game. HP, I know your source in Ames claims Fizer is like KT, but I have a different opinion. Im not meaning to knock your source but the main reason I felt the need to start draftsource.net was b/c a lot of the stuff you read and hear out there is complete bs or just exaggerated. That is why I stress people to make their own evaluations and dont believe everything you read/hear. For instance, another draft expert (I wont name any names but its not Monter) tried to convince me that Brendan Haywood is a better NBA prospect than Loren Woods. If I didnt do my own analysis and basically believed everything I heard, I'd probably believe him. Also, if you believe everything you hear, you would have thought Kenyon Martin was the best thing since sliced bread when in actuality he likely wont even be the best player in his draft. Darius Miles was compared to Kevin Garnett which is a complete half assed observation. A better comparison is a taller, longer version of Tracy McGrady. If you look surficially at it, Miles may appear to be Garnett and KT may appear to be like Fizer but if you dig and delve there are differences. Garnett posts up and plays on the interior a lot more than someone like Miles would. Even though Garnett can handle the ball, he does not handle it with nearly the amount of frequency someone like Miles or McGrady would. Miles or McGrady's offense starts further out from the hoop and consists more of slashing than someone like Garnett's does which consists more of the post up game. A surficial examination would likely make you feel Garnett and Miles are similar, I mean they are both long, athletic and look similar, but you have to dig deeper. I know you respect your source source in Ames when he says KT is the equivalent of Fizer but you just cannot believe everything you hear. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
