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Chicago combine test results...(Simien disappointing)

Discussion in 'NBA Draft' started by ClutchCityReturns, Jun 16, 2005.

  1. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/predraft2_050610.pdf
    Draft Camp Game 8
    Min--FG--FGA--FT--FTA--OR--DR--TOT--A--PF--ST--TO--PTS
    David Lee 20 -- 8 -- 10 -- 4 -- 4 -- 3 -- 4 -- 7 -- 2 -- 2 -- 1 -- 1 -- 20
    Ron. Turiaf 23 -- 3 -- 8 -- 2 -- 4 -- 0 -- 3 -- 3 -- 0 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0 -- 8

    Lee & Turiaf on opposing teams.
     
  2. Yao_ming1

    Yao_ming1 Member

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    Simien is the next Gary Trent.
     
  3. Mango

    Mango Contributing Member

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    If they aren't under contract to the NBA or any teams in the NBA .............then how can they be forced to play in games ran by the NBA?
     
  4. Da Wink

    Da Wink Member

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    Forget that Simien. If the results are accurate, how can he get the rebounds at the NBA level especially if you are undersized. Leaping ability should compensate for the shortage in height..
     
  5. JamesC

    JamesC Member

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    I benched 185 16 times today and its been a minute since I worked out.
     
  6. micah1j

    micah1j Member

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    The Rockets should take you at #24! :D
     
  7. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    I wonder how a 21YO Larry Bird would have scored on these tests?
     
  8. Relativist

    Relativist Contributing Member

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    As a Rox fan interested in Simien, I'm kind of glad to hear this. I guess you can put me with those that don't put as much stock into the tests. The fact that Simien, Jack, and Fernandez didn't do so well is good news to me.
     
  9. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    The same way the marginal players make it to the full Chicago pre-draft camp.

    It was obviously the agents who created this air that top prospects shouldn't overexpose themselves by actually playing against other top prospects (or lesser prospects, even) who might outperform them.

    Start a camp that encourages top players to come and play...it can catch on.

    Moreover, NBA teams do actually have NBA talent they can require to play against prospects in workouts.

    If we are looking for a PF who will be taking playing time away from Juwon, there is no reason Juwon shouldn't be working out against whoever we bring in.
     
  10. HoRockets

    HoRockets Member

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    After looking at the results, Turiaf, May, and Ike Diogu would be my preference for Rocket PF if any one of them would fall that far.
     
  11. JamesC

    JamesC Member

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    I'd bring a lot of toughness to the paint. :D But seriously I expected guys like Simien and Chris Taft to be a little stronger on the weights. I would've never guessed Channing Frye could bench 185 more times than both of those guys.
     
  12. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    Read down at the bottom.

    http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8545981

    CHICAGO -- Will Bynum isn't supposed to be here, much less be the most impressive player after one game of the 2005 NBA pre-draft camp. But that was Bynum out there Wednesday, dunking on bigger players, blocking shots and getting to the rim whenever he wanted.


    Will Bynum's draft status is a head scratcher.
    Did we mention he stands 5-feet-10?

    No wonder he wasn't among the first 60 players originally invited.

    "It's always something with me," said Bynum, who played the past two seasons at Georgia Tech. "I'm always being doubted, but that's good because I've always got a chip on my shoulder."

    Wednesday afternoon is about as early as early gets at the pre-draft camp -- first day, first game -- but Bynum's draft stock ought to be on the rise. Matched against Marquette's Travis Diener or Utah Valley State's Ronnie Price at the Moody Bible Institute, Bynum did as he pleased offensively and showed his ridiculous hops by getting called for defensive goaltending.

    The only thing Bynum didn't show was a jump shot, and the way he was getting to the rim, why bother? On one fast break, he broke down Price so severely, using a behind-the-back dribble, that a European scout broke into applause.

    Don't get too attached, Euro-scout. Bynum might not need a passport to make money at this game.

    "I've heard anything from second round to maybe slipping into the first if I do well here," Bynum said. "I've had private workouts for nine teams so far."

    He was supposed to add to that number in Chicago, his hometown. With every NBA team in town for the camp, Bynum had set up a number of individual workouts this week. Instead, his agent called Tuesday afternoon with good news: Georgia high school player Louis Williams had backed out of the camp, opening a spot for a point guard. Bynum was it.

    "I was already at (another) gym, about to do some workouts, when my agent called," Bynum said. "I just packed up my stuff and came over here."

    NBA scouting director Marty Blake says Bynum could be the latest in a line of late camp additions to play his way onto someone's draft board. It first happened in the 1980s, Blake said, when Southern California's Dwight Anderson backed out of the camp and was replaced by Craig Hodges.

    "And Hodges played, what, 13 years in the NBA?" Blake said. "It happens."

    E. Williams, Mensah-Bonsu, S. Smith updates
    Wake Forest center Eric Williams, a junior whose NBA Draft decision could determine the Deacons' 2006 NCAA Tournament aspirations, sounded Wednesday like he'd be back in school.

    "This atmosphere ... it gives you that college feeling," Williams said. "It makes you think about what you had in college."

    Williams said he'd only stay in the draft if a team guarantees taking him in the first round. He hasn't received such a guarantee yet, and unless his hands improve dramatically between now and the June 21 deadline, he won't get one.

    Another junior big man, George Washington's Pops Mensah-Bonsu, sounded more inclined to stay in the draft. Mensah-Bonsu also showed suspect hands, but his athletic ability and strength make him an NBA-quality defender.

    "It's too early to be making any decisions," Mensah-Bonsu said, "but today was definitely a positive for me. I rebounded well, defended. I was hoping today would get me off to a good start this week, and it did."

    La Salle's Steven Smith won't get a first-round guarantee, but he won't necessarily need one to stay in the draft. A source close to him said Smith was aware of other former La Salle players -- Rasual Butler and Doug Overton -- who carved out NBA careers after being selected in the second round.

    Final thoughts
    Chicago State sophomore Deji Akindele cost himself some money Wednesday. He looks great at 7-1 and chiseled 240 pounds, and he shot well in drills, but during the scrimmage he was terrible. Awful. Instead of using his body and athletic ability to dunk on people, he tried a variety of weak finishing moves that were blocked or spun errantly off the glass.
    Indiana junior Bracey Wright played superbly, hitting jumpers and finding open teammates and even diving on the floor for a loose ball.
    Illinois' Luther Head and Gonzaga's Ronny Turiaf also stood out , Head for his driving ability and Turiaf for his tenacity and rebounding.
    Former Missouri signee and Cincinnati bust Robert Whaley looked good enough to make money somewhere, but not good enough for that somewhere to be an NBA city.
    Get to know 6-7 Oakland guard Rawle Marshall. He'll be in the NBA some day, perhaps some day soon.
    Marquette's Travis Diener shot exquisitely. Big surprise there.
    Two former ACC players, Jawad Williams of North Carolina and Mike Bell of North Carolina State (and then Florida Atlantic), are nice stand-up shooters but neither can score if denied the perimeter shot.
     
    #32 Dubious, Jun 17, 2005
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2005
  13. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    Anyone else amused that Jason Klotz finished among the worst in every drill? Good stuff.
     
  14. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    Not amused really, After working so hard for the Longhorns I'd hoped he would collect an NBA paycheck. I'm guessing he can still find a paying job in the European leagues somewhere. That's still good money and four or five years can at least get you an investment grubstake though not set you up for life like an NBA contract would. (6'9" guys just don't look right in a McDonalds hat)
     
  15. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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  16. JamesC

    JamesC Member

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    I hated to see that. I've known Jason since second grade. I knew he wasnt a top prospect but I wanted to see him do well in workouts. I havent talked to him in a while but we're pretty good friends.
     
  17. Mango

    Mango Contributing Member

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    The marginal guys who are on the Bubble between the 1st -- 2nd round and definitely 2nd round have to gamble more than players such as Felton, Green, Bogut, Paul, Marvin Williams etc. The NBA will tell players that they can't be drafted for failing to participate fully in the Chicago games/workouts?

    <hr color=red>

    Probably so.

    <hr color=red>


    What will be the incentive for them to play?
    <hr color=red>

    It is restricted on what setup -- framework is allowed for NBA teams to have the Draft prospects test themselves against each other. Running a 5 vs 5 game is beyond what individual teams are allowed to do.

    <a HREF="http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/whatsInADraft_20040525.html">What’s In A Draft Workout</a>
    <i>...........
    After spending a good amount of time on shooting, it's time to go live and see what these guys bring to the table in one-on-one and two-on-two situations (NBA rules stipulate that there be no more than four players on the court at a time). But as Coach Wohl mentioned, they're not just looking for scoring, they're looking for basketball IQ and how players react to different situations. ...........</i>


    I doubt that teams can force Prospects to go directly against each other.

    <a HREF="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8245811/">Lee’s draft stock rising fast</a>
    <i>.........<b>.The workout that wasn't</b>
    Illinois point guard Deron Williams, apparently at the prodding of his agent, backed out of a head-to-head workout with North Carolina's Raymond Felton last week in New Orleans. That probably was a smart thing. "Felton would kill (Williams) in a one-on-one workout setting," one scout says. "He's got so much quickness on him. I wouldn't have allowed that, either."

    Instead, Williams worked out after Felton, who says, "I am not afraid to work out against anyone." ..........</i>


    It appears that it is whatever terms the Prospect & his agent will agree to with the teams.
    <a HREF="http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031783319847&path=!sports!basketball&s=1037645509220">Green, exhausted, sparkles in tough Bobcats workout</a>
    <i>THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    CHARLOTTE

    Gerald Green, a 6-8 shooting guard just out of high school, worked out for the Charlotte Bobcats yesterday and impressed the coaching staff, even though he struggled at the end of the grueling session.

    Charlotte might be interested in taking Green with the No. 5 pick in the NBA Draft, said Coach Bernie Bickerstaff, who has repeatedly expressed his preference for college players.

    "He's by far the best athlete that we've had in here," Bickerstaff said.

    Green, from Houston, made Charlotte the first stop on his NBA tryout tour. Many players have said that the Bobcats stage the toughest auditions in the league.

    Green was clearly in pain the final 10 minutes, grimacing as he ran the length of the court, then bending over to catch his breath between free throws. When the session was over, he laid down on the court for several minutes to recuperate.
    <b>
    Still, he said he thought that the individual workout was the best decision for him.

    "It is too big of a risk for me to work out with other players," he said. "I could sprain an ankle or tear an ACL. I just decided it was too big of a risk."
    </b>
    And although he was exhausted, Green was proud of completing the workout. Several players haven't been able to finish a Bobcats workout, and Bickerstaff recently revealed that North Carolina's Sean May didn't complete his.

    "I was tired, but I made sure I finished it," Green said. "I knew it was going to be tough. This isn't a high-school workout or even a college workout. This was professional, and I went all out and made sure I was tired."

    Green was the second high-school player to work out for the Bobcats this week. Martell Webster, a 6-7 shooting guard from Seattle, was in Tuesday, and he also impressed Bickerstaff.

    "Some guys just have it," Bickerstaff said of Webster. "This guy just knows how to play basketball ... with the body to go with it."

    It's still unclear what picks the Bobcats will hold on June 28, the night of the draft.

    They currently have the No. 5 and No. 13 picks, but they are willing to make deals for the right offers. However, Bickerstaff has insisted that he's not interested in trading both selections just to move up higher than No. 5 to try to land either North Carolina's Marvin Williams or Wake Forest's Chris Paul.

    Bickerstaff said he believed he could get the third pick from Portland - the team most interested in Green, according to reports - but said that the asking price right now is too high. If the Bobcats trade both picks, they want a team to package another player in the deal.
    </i>




    <a HREF="http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/111882998685980.xml&coll=7">Agent insists Green play one-on-none</a>
    <i>Blazers general manager John Nash counters that he still wants to see the prep star perform on defense
    Wednesday, June 15, 2005
    JASON QUICK

    The stock of high school guard Gerald Green continued to plummet in the eyes of the Trail Blazers on Tuesday when the agent for the Houston prep star held firm in his demand that Green audition without competition.

    The Blazers, who hold the third overall pick in the June 28 draft, wanted Green to work out Thursday in Portland with Seattle prep guard Martell Webster, North Carolina guard Rashad McCants and Washington guard Nate Robinson. But when agent Andrew Vye told the Blazers that Green would work out only by himself, general manager John Nash told Green not to bother coming.

    "To say that they are not going to use a pick in the draft because a kid won't work out against guys who I think aren't anywhere near his class or caliber is posturing," Vye said. "I think John Nash really likes Gerald Green; that's my gut feeling." </i>

    <hr color=red>

    I don't think it is possible for that to happen. Why would the NBAPA agree to something like that? The web site for the NBAPA is balky at the moment, otherwise I would look for documentation. I looked for a link showing that a veteran player participated in a workout against a Draft Prospect at the team's command/request/order and couldn't find one.
     
  18. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    One obvious incentive is to work their way up the draft boards. Even a player slated to go 10-15 would be alot better off going 5-10 or 1-5. Otherwise, they have to be incentivized by their stock falling if they don't participate...which isn't something that would happen immediately, but it could grow into something

    Why? If it is a rule, it should change...it's stupid. Where exactly is the harm?

    This is the problem. If the argument is that Deron is as good a 5 on 5 player, just wouldn't do well one on one against particular people, all th emore reason a prospect like Deron would benefit from a pre-draft camp that includes these lottery players.

    Otherwise, the only direct conclusion would be what the scout pointed out...Deron is not nearly the one on one, athletic player that Felton is.

    I'd want to see Green work out against another player as well. I don't see why the NBAPA has to even be involved.

    "Hey Juwon, we got this kid coming in we may draft. If he's good, he's going to take away significant minutes from you...you want to come in and see what he's made of?"

    But it doesn't even have ot be about the individual...if you really want to see your team improve, why wouldn't you help them out in the offseason? Too much risk tearing an ACL as oppossed to whatever pick-up games you're playing in?
     
  19. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Turiaf Turiaf Turiaf Turiaf

    er

    Lee Lee Lee Lee

    er

    Hodge Hodge Hodge Hodge
     
    #39 jopatmc, Jun 18, 2005
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2005
  20. RioGrando

    RioGrando Member

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    Pick up Alan Anderson. The draft reports about him are great, and his highlight film from Yahoo was good. He even scored pretty well in the measurements that has everyone doubting Simien.

    Rox Team:

    Sura/James/Ward
    Barry/Anderson
    T-Mac/Bowen
    Howard/ MLE FA
    Yao/Deke
     

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