When you defend yourself in this thread... http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78982 I might honor you with a response.
Cheney is a classless jerk. I would expect nothing less from a person who thinks that anyone caught asking questions about the administration is considered a traitor to America. If Howard Dean can be called nuts for his little "yah" then cursing on the Senate floor shows what a megalomaniac screwball Cheney is.
2. This email says nothing of the Vice President's involvement in the selection process. Nothing. It simply says 'action' has been coordinated with the VP's office. Is this the best the liberals can do? One email from un-named officials? One email in 4 years? That's it? Very weak. Later in that article, the involvement is denied by Cheney's spokesman. Sorry libs, but this ain't holding water. 3. You've got to be kidding me. Do you honestly think Cheney is risking his political life to give Halliburton a sweetheart deal so that he can save money on his taxes? AMT probably makes your point ridiculous anyhow. (google AMT to find out what it means).
Only in your alternate universe is $100,000/year in deferred compensation not a financial tie. Dennis claimed he sold all of his Halliburton stock. Was this accurate?
It's sad that the Vice President can't respect the Senate floor. At least when Bush called someone a "major league *******" it was on a campaign stage.
1. You obviously do not even understand deferred comp. It is not a financial tie. A financial tie implies that Cheney's compensation depends on Halliburton's future success. This comp does not depend on that. Nice try. 2. Not only do you not understand deferred comp, but you don't understand the difference between a share of stock and an option to purchase a share of stock. When you learn the difference, then you will be qualified to share an opinion. Until then, please study up. I'm noticing that the lib's posts are getting shorter and shorter. Scared? Or just exposed for your shallow knowledge base? Are all of the liberals' criticisms this shallow and uneducated? One can only wonder....
So Jorge enlighten me here with your vast knowledge. Cheney has no opportunity in the future to profit off of 433,000 of stock options?
The Congressional Research Service disagrees with you and Cheney on this one. A report by the Congressional Research Service undermines Vice President Dick Cheney's denial of a continuing relationship with Halliburton Co., the energy company he once led, Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Thursday. The report says a public official's unexercised stock options and deferred salary fall within the definition of "retained ties" to his former company. Cheney said Sunday on NBC that since becoming vice president, "I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest. I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years." Democrats pointed out that Cheney receives deferred compensation from Halliburton under an arrangement he made in 1998, and also retains stock options. He has pledged to give after-tax proceeds of the stock options to charity. Cheney's aides defended the assertion on NBC, saying the financial arrangements do not constitute a tie to the company's business performance. They pointed out that Cheney took out a $15,000 insurance policy so he would collect the deferred payments over five years whether or not Halliburton remains in business. Lautenberg, D-N.J., asked the Congressional Research Service to weigh in. Without naming Cheney or Halliburton, the service reported that unexercised stock options and deferred salary "are among those benefits described by the Office of Government Ethics as 'retained ties' or 'linkages' to one's former employer." Lautenberg said the report makes clear that Cheney does still have financial ties to Halliburton. "I ask the vice president to stop dodging the issue with legalese," Lautenberg said. Cathie Martin, Cheney's spokeswoman, said the question is whether Cheney has any possible conflict of interest with Halliburton, "and the answer to that is, no." Cheney was chief executive officer of Halliburton from 1995 through August 2000. The company's KBR subsidiary is the main government contractor working to restore Iraq's oil industry in an open-ended contract that was awarded without competitive bidding. According to Cheney's 2001 financial disclosure report, the vice president's Halliburton benefits include three batches of stock options comprising 433,333 shares. He also has a 401(k) retirement account valued at between $1,001 and $15,000 dollars. His deferred compensation account was valued at between $500,000 and $1 million, and generated income of $50,000 to $100,000. In 2002, Cheney's total assets were valued at between $19.1 million and $86.4 million. Earlier this month, a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit that accused Halliburton and Cheney of misleading investors by changing the way the company counted revenue from construction projects. The lawsuit was filed last year by Judicial Watch, a conservative public interest group, on behalf of three small investors, who said the company tried to polish financial results by booking revenue on cost overruns before it was certain of getting paid. Halliburton has contracts worth more than $1.7 billion for its work in Iraq, and it could make hundreds of millions more from a no-bid contract it was awarded by the Army Corps of Engineers, The Washington Post has reported. According to The Post, while Cheney was defense secretary the Pentagon chose Halliburton subsidiary Brown & Root to study the cost effectiveness of outsourcing some military operations to private contractors. Based on the results of the study, the Pentagon hired Brown & Root to implement an outsourcing plan. Cheney became Halliburton CEO in 1995. link
1. So what you're saying is if Bin Laden was receiving $100,000/year in deferred compensation from Saddam for 9/11, this would not constitute a "financial tie"? 2. I was conflating stocks and stock options. That was my mistake. See it feels good when you are intellectually honest. Trader, admitting when you're wrong doesn't make you less of a man..
No, it is not a financial tie. Mulder, your link proves nothing but that you have been reduced to a semantics game. Words and lables aside, I can confidently and accurately state that Vice President Dick Cheney has NO FINANCIAL INCENTIVE FOR HALLIBURTON TO SUCCEED OR FAIL. This is the bottom line. His integrity is in no way compromised by his deferred comp payments or his stock options. The financial community would have a hearty laugh at watching the liberals try to defend themselves on this point. Talk about arguing from a position of weakness...
Cheney is playing semantics, not me, not the Congressional Research Service. Forgive me if I trust the findings of a congressional research organization rather than a shill, choo-choo. That's just me, I'm funny about stuff like that. Since you are cool about folks giving out $ and expecting nothing in return, can I have $100,000? I promise I won't do a thing for you afterwards.
Fine, then playing by the rules of your semantics game, they called it a "retained tie" or a "linkage". Not a financial tie. You lose on both counts. Sorry.
You see this is the problem, "nothing in return" is false. It is the fatal flaw in your argument. Cheney earned that money when he was the CEO at Halliburton. He gave his service in return. That money was earned years ago. He simply didn't collect it then. He deferred it. Now do you understand deferred comp? Don't you think the liberals should try to understand deferred compensation and stock options before they weigh in with their criticisms? To me it destroys their credibility. Well, I guess you can't destroy something that never existed.
I've sat on, and worked with, many non profit boards. Almost all of them had policies that prohibited involvement when you had a conflict of interest, or a perceived conflict of interest. i don't understand how anyone could suggest there isn't a huge perceived conflict of interest between Dick and Halliburton. Especially since the report Mulder referenced did conclude financial ties still exist (not withstanding Traders points). It seems so obvious that he should have absolutely NO involvement in contracts that may benefit Halliburton. Sometimes the perception of justice is just as important as justice itself. (i think that's a bastardized quote from someone smarter than i am -- and it seems to fit here).
Look at deferred compensation this way: Assume the Astros sign a free agent to a 2 year 10 million dollar contract. They pay 6 million the first 2 years and the remaining 4 million is deferred to the 3rd year. After two years, the free agent signs a new contract with the Rangers. On top of the Rangers offer, he still gets the 4 million the Astros owe him. The 4 million will be his regardless of the Astros season, attendance, profits or losses. He'll get it whether or not he hits a game winning HR against the Astros or commits an error that enables the Astros to win a game.
Standard response to a legitimate inquiry; we are just to dumb to understand the intricacies of advanced finance. Please choo_choo, enlighten us with your fiduciary wisdom.
