Very interesting! Two observations: 1. HOU is a clear outlier in a good way on efficiency vs big heights. Is it because of Hayes ? 2. efficiency vs wings height is very interesting. It seems there is a cluster on lower left, where all except MIL are contenders. HOU is just average or below. Wondering if Battier or Ariza is overrated in defense?
I believe all the frontcourt players that came to the rockets in the trade ie.Jeffries, Hill and Hilton have a 9'0 standing reach or better when measured during their draft combines.
Nice work durvasa interesting stuff. it would be interesting to see each defensive effeciency at each height/position for example... these positions(bigs, guards, etc) scored X number of points against us but, that would take forever. This chart shows what height they have at each position but doesn't change the outlook of each position. Still interesting, slightly surprised that we are above avg on defense without a real big.
Can you also provide the numbers in a table? I wouldn't exclude a strong correlation. On the other hand, it is actually more interesting to identify outliers, which could point to unique players or coaching.
Yeah you're right I just wasn't paying attention--see above. Like durvasa, I would have expected more or a correlation between height of bigs specifically and defensive efficiency. It's obvious now that height is not sufficient for good defense. However, height, at least to a certain level, might still be neccessary. There is a lack of data (we are waaayyyy shorter than any other team, so there's no data between us and utah), but would it be fair to argue (not tautologically, but at least pointing out a correlation) that you cannot be an elite defensive team without an average frontcourt height of 6'10"? Again, it's difficult to say given the huge gap between our bigs and the next-shortest bigs, but subjectively, that seems valid (IE, the lack of a big interior defender has hurt our team defense this year). Thoughts?
Very interesting stuff. Not sure what conclusion one can draw from this, though. Perhaps a more important factor is the coach's philosophy on defense. In other words, I would expect a team coached by, say JVG, to show better on the team defence statistic than the same team coached by, say, Don Nelson. Also, when looking at the data on a snapshot basis (ie today), do you feel there is enough data (30 teams) to draw any conclusions with sound statistical basis?
There are some conclusions you can draw such as you can have great height and still be an awful defensive team. Especially if your tall guys are young. Not a particularly ground-breaking discovery. I'll post defense vs age maybe later on. It could be interesting to compare it to the defense vs height charts.
Hey nice work durvasa . I just don't have the time or energy anymore to dabble with basketball stats in my old age! Glad you're still doing it! I agree with studogg.
Pre-trade was midget city on the frontline. LOL. I think Dorsey had come close to a 9'0 standing reach and probably Ariza is up there with his length as well. Not having Yao and Deke who's standing reaches were probably around 9'6 or better has been a huge void defensively or shall I say layup drill for opposing teams.
That's exactly what I get out of this. I always thought that height was highly overrated. And since 'we' usually regard height as the anchor to a solid defense, that tells me that we don't need tall players to play good defense. We just need players that are willing to play great team defense. We need quickness, mobility, high basketball IQ and a solid defensive gameplan for every opponent. However, this chart doesn't say that height has no effect on defense. I could still argue that having players with strong work ethics on defense as well as quickness, mobility and IQ that are also taller than average could still be the perfect defense. I'd say strive for both (height and mentality) but value mentality more so than height.
I think this would be much more interesting taking only rotation players (not the Brezecs, Milicic, Fesenkos and company).
i think the biggest thing I took out of this is that there's not much to take out of it. not altogether surprising, but its nice to see the evidence nonetheless.
Interesting look. By chance, did you run an adjusted r-squared? I'd be curious to know the degree of coorelation. the regression looks fairly spread in all graphs suggesting that there is a lose correlation but not a significant one.
Yes I do appreciate his effort but there are so many variables that would be so difficult to measure. Look how great Dennis Rodman was on defense. He was 6'7". If he had that same athleticism and desire but was 6'10" don't you think that would make him even that much better of course it would. The problem why this chart is useless is because there is also a direct correlation between height and athleticism. The taller you are the less athletic you are. Of course there are exceptions. Hakeem was an amazing athlete. Shaq was an exceptional athlete, dwight Howard is a rare specimen. KG has unbelievable skills for his height. Kareem and Bill russell back in the day. When you find an exception you can usually find a star. So unless you can include the variables of talent with that height you will not be able to measure it. Give me Dwight Howard Height over Eric Dampier height... give me Dalemburts defense over Okur. Jordan Hill is taller than Dorsey but will never be the defender like Dorsey. (bring on the flamers) Height is only important if it comes with talent. Rodman had so much more athletic talent than the Pat Ewings and Karl Malones of his era. That's why he could dominate on defense. How do you measure that?
I don't understand the question. The goal here isn't to measure defensive impact. We already know which teams are good defensively and which teams are bad defensively (defensive efficiency does a good job of telling you that). But do tall teams tend to be better defensively than short teams? What about if they are tall in the front court? What about if they are tall in the backcourt? There are a ton of factors that go into being good on defense, no question. But where does height rank amongst them? It turns out that height, in itself, really isn't a huge factor for most teams. Now the Rockets are unconventional in their makeup, and they have definitely missed Yao's presence. But if you substituted Chuck for your typical 6'11 front-court player, are the Rockets suddenly a good defensive team again? I doubt it.
I understand your point durvasa. And I actually apreciate your effort. I was hoping it would show something about height that I know is true. But instead it shows that height is irrelevant. But that is just not true. Length has always mattered in the league when all else is equal. The problem is in most instances all things are not equal. There is a direct correlation between height and athleticism. The taller you are the less athleticism you are likely to possess. Lebron James is no more athletic than Aaron brooks. If Aaron Brooks could do the things that he does with James height and frame we would be chanting King Brooks. Height does matter hakeem would not have been the force he was if he was 6 foot tall. The Rockets lack height and already in 1 game Jeffries a slightly above average defender with height has shown us how it helps us defensively. An unathletic 7'6" guy makes a big difference to this team defensively. People have always underrated Yao's defensive presence but the coaches haven't and the other teams haven't. Height matters but not just height. You must bring height with talent and that's the problem. Many times height doesn't come with talent. And it's not even just height and athleticism. You have a desire that I don't know how you measure. Look at Jordan Hill he has both height and some athleticism. In his videos he looks good. The NBA loved his workouts and height and athleticism that's why he went 8th. But I will suggest that he doesn't have a desire to bang in the post and avoids contact and that's why New York was not worried about trading him.
