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Charlie Hebdo Blowback

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    We all want the type of terrorist acts like Charlie Hebdo to cease. One of the questions is whether we want to reduce them sufficiently to reduced the type of frankly imperialist policies that increase these types of attacks.

    We really are not accomplishing anything very worthwhile by our frequent invasions or encouraging violent regime changes in countries throughout the Muslim World. such as the failed state of Lybya. Of course our destruction of Iraq has caused ISIS to arise.

    It could be argued that such blowback is a risk that we need to take in certain cases. E.g in WW II we could not stop if there were similar terrorist actions (blowback) due to the conflict. Of course for the neocons who often times are Islamaphobes this is always the case with anything that interferes with their agenda. During the 1960's the neocon types treated Christianity in the form of Liberation Theology in Latin America similarly as a force to combat with death squads, war and torture. I am not equating liberation theology with Wahabism, but just pointing out that the agenda of many of the folks who use Charlie Hebdo to favor their essential policitcal agenda that has little to do with freedom of speech.
    ****
    Excerpts from an interesting article.

    The recent attack on the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, which left a dozen editors and cartoonists dead, has renewed concerns that blowback from the latest round of fighting in Syria and Iraq is finally reaching Europe.

    “It was culpably naïve to imagine that sparks from the Iraq-Syrian civil war, now in its fourth year, would not spread explosive violence to Western Europe,” warned Patrick Cockburn in The Independent after the Hebdo attack. “With thousands of young Sunni Muslims making the difficult journey to Syria and Iraq to fight for Isis, it has always been probable that some of them would choose to give a demonstration of their religious faith by attacking targets they deem anti-Islamic closer to home.”

    Several violent actions have already taken place. In May, French citizen Mehdi Nemmouche, who had fought in Syria with IS, claimed responsibility for an attack on a Jewish museum in Brussels that left four dead. In December, an IS sympathizer took hostages at a café in Sydney before he and two customers died in a shootout with police.
    ...
    Several press outlets have suggested that one or both brothers had been to Syria. Other outlets report that the older brother, Said Kouachi, traveled to Yemen in 2011 for training with al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

    This narrative elevates what might otherwise be a solitary act of terrorism—like the assassination of Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam in 2004 or the massacres in 2011 in Norway by Anders Breivik—into the latest skirmish in a larger war. Such a narrative serves the purposes of IS and al-Qaeda, which both seek a global battlefield to raise their status and boost recruitment. But it also meets the needs of those in the West who seek a rationale for the build-up of the national security state or who want to promote a civilizational conflict against Islam more generally.

    ...

    The far right has already used the Charlie Hebdo killings to bolster their larger Islamophobic agenda. Nigel Farage of the UK Independence Party linked the attacks to a “fifth column” living in the West. French politician Marine Le Pen claimed that only her National Front party was equipped to take on the challenge of “Islamic fundamentalism on our territory.” In the Wall Street Journal, the outspoken Ayaan Hirsi Ali urged the non-Muslim world to stop appeasing radical jihadists, political Islamists, and Muslims more generally (the three categories frequently elide in her analysis).

    These tirades miss the point. Muslim organizations, from the Union of Islamic Organizations of France to the Council On American-Islamic Relations, have been vehement in their denunciations. The governments of Iran and Saudi Arabia condemned the attacks. Even the European Muslim organization with strong ties to the Muslim Brotherhood declared the killings a “vile terrorist act,” and Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah announced that extremists do more harm to Islam than the cartoons. The Charlie Hebdo assault, in other words, has been an opportunity for Muslim and non-Muslim alike to unite against and further marginalize IS, al-Qaeda, and their followers.

    The tragedy should also prompt a rethink of the way Europe is addressing the potential of blowback from the ongoing conflicts in the Middle East.
    But jails are the worst place to send these fighters. Those not yet radicalized can come under the sway of persuasive proselytizers. The already convinced, meanwhile, treat prison as a meet-up group to plan future ventures and collaboration.

    It is critically important to separate the average fighter, who might have gone to fight in the Middle East for any number of reasons, from hard-core al-Qaeda and IS adherents. Such triage frees up resources for law enforcement to focus on people like Cherif and Said Kouachi.


    The Charlie Hebdo killings, whatever their connections to the current wars in the Middle East, were acts of terrorism that should be handled by law enforcement. Blowback from these wars has so far been minimal in Europe. By resisting narratives of civilizational conflict and pushing for a ceasefire in the Syrian war, European governments can do even more to reduce the threat of this blowback.

    http://www.lobelog.com/charlie-hebdo-middle-east-blowback/
     
    #1 glynch, Jan 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  2. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    you've been watching too much Homeland

    Islamic terrorists kill for apostasy and heresy, not revenge.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    This was a piece of **** article you posted. Ayaan Hirsi Ali = "the far right"? From where? Maybe from the extremist left where you stand. She is a freaking VICTIM of Islamist bullcrap.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Was wondering how glynch would blame the West for hebdo.

    This isn't blowback for middle east wars.

    It's blowback for cartoons
     
  5. Nivos

    Nivos Member

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    I think the main difference in this case is that the terrorist does not come from the middle east to Europe BUT this terror attack comes from within. Seconed and third generation of immigrants.
    This is very important to understand I wonder how the Europeans will deal with that problem.
    I still think this is another horific example of the "clash of civilazations" that so many far laft wing extremist are trying to deny it even exists.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Not sure you can meet intolerance with understanding.

    DD
     
  7. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    If you provoke someone you deserve to die - Life According to BobbyTheGreat

    Rocket River
     
  8. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    SMH, it doesn't shock me that you'd swing and miss so badly.
     
  9. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    *shrug*

    Rocket River
     
    2 people like this.
  10. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    Lol.

    Ouch.
     
  11. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I think there is a debate that needs to happen - can views that are against the very fabric of society be tolerated? If a group believes in the destruction of society than what is to be done?

    Stopping immigration isn't going to address the problem.
     
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    You're just displaying your ignorance by butchering something I said like that. Charlie Hebdo didn't commit a crime, and they didn't assault anyone. The fact that you can't see the difference between writing a political cartoon and assaulting someone speaks volumes about you.
     
  13. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    really bobbythegreat? wow
     
  14. Nivos

    Nivos Member

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    Stopping immigration isn't going to address the problem.[/QUOTE]

    No it can't, and even if you wanted to, in Europe its too late.

    For America I would make sure that immigrants could become contributing members to society with a complete acceptance of its values. But this is a completely different discussion.

    As to what to be done in Europe- I think the only thing that you can do as a goverment is make sure that the next terrorist understand that there will be harsh consequenses not only to them but to their families as well. Deportation is acceptable.
    Europe needs to understand that there is a war going on, and they are in it. If they want it or not.
    Other thing that must be done can only come from the Muslim world. Stop turning a blind eye because this war is going inside the Islamic world. Moderate Muslims, that wants to be part of western society can not sit aside and wait for one side to win to make a stand. They must shout, out loud. We want freedom. We don't want Sharia law. We don't want to live in a Sharia law world. The more Muslims will rise up and shout it out loud the more hope this world will have. But it must come out from them.
    I sure hope they'll get it before its too late.
     
  15. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Never watched Homeland. Maybe that is your problem .
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Interesting not one response wants to see that stop doing imperialist adventures is one of the causes of these terrorist acts

    I expect this from fans of the Iraq War but from others?

    If we stop doing stupid things in the Middle East it would certainly help
     
  17. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Just so there's no confusion, what Rocket River posted wasn't something I actually said, he just made it look like it was something I said. Sort of like this.


     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Is it the cause?

    Is it also the cause of Nigerian Muslims slaughtering whole Nigerian cities?
     
  19. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Here's the blowback: arson of German media offices, attacks on Muslim mosques,
    banning of pro-Palestine protests and the censure of controversial comedians who are targeting the wrong side of the alley.

    In short, a zealous small minority of all races and religions with an attachment to the ideology of violence is once again making hell for all people, and the State commits to defending a freedom of expression it violates the same day.
     
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Small minority?
     

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