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Charles Barkley: "4 elite teams in the West". Guess which team isn't included?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by bmd, Oct 26, 2015.

  1. swyyyguy

    swyyyguy Member

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    every year we have a thread talking about how ESPN doesn't slurp us enough.

    just play our game and fly under the radar. don't worry about the media.
     
  2. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Contributing Member

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    our coach used to be a professional basketball player, won championships and is also a HOF

    just saying
     
  3. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    The funny thing here is that Barkley has said on numerous occasions that he loves the city of Houston, and its fans. It's the organization he has beef with, not us. Yet we take everything he says about the Rockets so personally......
     
  4. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Nobody should take it personally. It's amusing to me though every time Barkley slights the Rockets.

    The Rockets could be up 65-39 at halftime and Dwight could have 16 points and 8 rebounds at the half and you think there is no way he cannot say something good about the Rockets during halftime. But then he's like "well the Suns just didn't come to play tonight. Anybody could be destroying them right now."

    And you just have to laugh.

    This thread is another example of Barkley purposely leaving the Rockets off of his list like it's the elephant in the room. It's amusing because as the Rockets continue to improve each year, it becomes harder and harder for Barkley to continue to deny them without it looking obvious that he isn't an objective analyst. Which makes it more amusing.
     
  5. Lando

    Lando Member

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    Colin cowherd gave Houstin some love on his show today. He said something like..

    "The clippers are loaded, & I like them 4th best!...look at houstons roster!!!...LOOK..at houstons...roster!!!...they're stacked like 11 deep!!"
     
  6. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Contributing Member

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    for the record I love Chuck - I loved him as a player and I love him as a "analyst" his comments do not bother me at all

    I mean the four teams he mentioned

    Warriors - OF COURSE

    Thunder - They made the finals somewhat recently and have two of the best players in the league and if KD is healthy there is no reason for anyone to think they wont be one of the top teams in the west. Outside of last season 3 of the previous 4 seasons they've made it to at least the WCF. The one season where they didn't was the year Westbrook got injured from that incident with Beverley. There is no reason to believe with health they wont be one of the best.

    Spurs - made two of the last 3 finals and were favorites again last season. They just added LMA to their team. Lost some depth I feel, but they were literally one game away from being the 2 seed last year. They dealt with injuries as well (not as extensive though as the Thunder and Rockets though) so again no reason to think they wont be able to be a high 50 win team.


    The above 3 teams when healthy have either won championships recently or made it to the finals. I dont have an issue with anyone in the media ranking them above the Rockets.

    So it really boils down to the Clippers and Rockets. Both made tweaks to their team from the previous season. The Clippers added to their bench, but how much that will make a difference I do not know especially considering the age of the guys and their declining skill set. I like the Pierce signing a LOT for the Clippers. Stephenson was a good cheap pick up but you can only have one knucklehead on the team and the Clippers have what like four? Smoove is going to be Josh Smith some nights and JSmoove some other nights. Unfortunately there will be more Josh Smith nights than JSmoove nights at this point in his career. McHale embraced Josh a lot, it will be interesting to see how he fares with Doc and Chris Paul.

    The Rockets added Ty Lawson and some bench depth with Thorton. Their biggest addition would really be health. They aren't starting off well in that aspect with DMo still hurt but if they are healthy come playoff time they will have added 3 quality starters to their rotation. They made it despite the odds to the WCF last season - something the Clippers have not.


    So really it comes down to media perception and how much they market themselves as great. The Clippers despite their lack of post season success of late have been in the mix since Paul got there. They have been close to the WCF a few times and I think made it out of the first round every year except once. The Rockets on the other hand seem to be that team on the rise. They surprised as the 8th seed Harden's first year and lost. They really disappointed a lot of people when losing to the Blazers despite having homecourt. Most expected them to win the series and if not for some bad calls and bounces you know maybe they would have advanced. Last year they advanced despite the odds. The media hates Howard for how he spurned LA (i mean its LA how can he leave!!!) and the media constantly hates on Harden's ability to get to the FT line because while its probably the single most effective play in basketball it makes for bad tv. I mean take a look at the MVP voting - I felt Curry was a legit and deserving player last season but Curry won in a landslide which to me was surprising.

    Add in Doc used to be part of ESPN/ABC "A" broadcast team before Mark Jackson got there they will stick up for their fellow media guy. Doc knows how to work the media. For all the flak the Rockets got for "Campaigning" for Harden to win MVP Doc does it all the time for his guys without much blowback. The Warriors do the same but again Kerr is another former media guy and not to mention the Warriors have one of the biggest sports writers in their pocket (Marc Spears) to write their pieces. McHale was a media guy but he was a minor in-studio guy for NBATV and appeared now and then on Inside the NBA compared to Rivers and Kerr who were on the main broadcast teams for their networks.

    Add in all those factors so its no real surprise that most of the media are over-looking the Rockets. Does it matter not really the only unfortunate part though where it does matter is the perception the media creates and the narratives. It factors in recognition and awards. Personally I also believe it creates favorable scheduling the following season as well. Networks want to televise the "contending" teams big time and so they will get more games on national tv and their schedule generally will be moved around to work around that. I believe the Warriors this year are projected to have the easiest Strength of Schedule amongst all the western playoff teams. I dont buy fully into the whole everyone plays 82 games rhetoric. Yes everyone does but how you play those 82 games matter. What if one team has more back to back or 4 games in 5 nights type schedules? You're more likely to lose to a mediocre team in that 4th game from tired legs compared to if you played them with a full days rest and so forth. Thats the edge media can give a team. I dont believe its a conspiracy or anything but the NBA just wants their most entertaining teams for a national audience and those are the benefits for it.


    Honestly with the Rockets if they are healthy come playoff time their chances are just as good as anyone else's in the west - homecourt or not (though homecourt would be preferred) Personally I see them in the 4th seed behind the Warriors, Thunder and Clippers. Really any 5 of those teams can be 1-5 easily the only team I would categorize as "I dont want to face in the playoffs but they aren't a contender anymore" are the Grizzlies and even they can make the wcf if things do break right actually for them. Its unfortunate because over the years the Rockets fanbase have gotten used to being dumped on and it made sense the Rockets were not a good team and were perennial 9th in the west finishers and then when they did get into the playoffs were first round fodder. So being disrespected was warranted but now that they are coming off the WCF i dont think the respect should be given. It was literally one season, much like how the Grizzlies made it that one season. It will take a few years of playoff success for the Rockets to get that media respect. If they make the WCF or better this season I am sure they will next season going forward.

    Think of this way - a lot of media do not expect the Warriors to repeat as easily because of so many factors that happened last season that could be considered "fluke-ish" or really one time type things. The same could be said of the Rockets making the WCF they had a few things break their way and also a bunch of things that didn't. There is no reason for anyone to feel the Rockets are being disrespected - overlooked? Probably but isn't that what every team wants to be?
     
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  7. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Of course, most people would say the West has FIVE "elite" teams. Some might say ONE or TWO or perhaps THREE. Depending on how you define elite.

    FOUR is just an odd number considering the teams.

    Most analysts would put the Rockets and the Clippers on the same level, probably together with the Spurs and the Thunder, while the Warriors are the king of hill.

    The Spurs added Aldridge but the original Big 3 are one year older. The Thunder is somewhat unknown because of what happened to them last year.
     
  8. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

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    The Warriors are the champs and are bringing back their core. OKC has been to the Finals and is a healthy Durant away from being a 60+ win team. SA is always dangerous and just added an All Star. The Clippers were one quarter away from easily eliminating us just a season ago AND they added talent over the summer.

    I think we are better than OKC, SA and the Clips this season but I can't fault anyone for putting them ahead of us.
     
  9. bmd

    bmd Member

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    I don't have a problem with someone putting the Rockets 5th. But I don't get Chuck's logic where he'd put 4 teams as "elite" but not put the Rockets in that tier. That's the issue.

    There are pretty much 5 teams which most people can agree on have created separation between themselves and the rest of the pack. The arguments are which order those 5 teams will be.

    That's the issue with Chuck's statement.
     
  10. bmd

    bmd Member

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    I agree. I don't fault anyone for putting those teams ahead of the Rockets.

    I cannot take seriously those who would say those teams are clearly in another tier above the Rockets. That's what doesn't make sense.
     
  11. lovermanbuda

    lovermanbuda Member

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    Barkley talks for entertainment so I take it for whatever it's worth and it's usually nothing much.
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Rockets have legit issues that make them a sleeper.

    Only one superstar player as Dwight is clearly has not performed at that level in a few years and is not 100% healthy. Lawson has question marks, and everyone else is a role player.

    Loads of potential, loads of talent, but it's easy to see why this team would get discounted. I am not worried about it. If we stay healthy, the games and results will speak for themselves. Don't let pundits affect your excitement levels!
     
  13. ParaSolid

    ParaSolid Member

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    This team is STACKED. Get excited guys!
     
  14. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Contributing Member

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    I dont disagree with your statement, I think classifying the Clippers as elite is the media perception that Doc help create and add in the fact that they are now the "LA Market" team. Objectively I would say that there is one elite team in GSW, one potentially elite team in OKC depending on health and 3 borderline elite teams in SAS, LAC and HOU.

    But again its Chuck part of his job is to create controversy - add in that he doesnt like the Rockets org at a personal level because of the sacrifice he made (which really he should be more pissed at Pippin) but I understand it he felt and he isn't wrong but should have been treated better at the end. This is exactly why I have no issues with players taking the most money possible and that sacrificing money the way Barkley did and the way David West is doing this year when it doesn't work out will really only hurt them in the long run. Had the Rockets won a ring in that shortened season I am sure Barkley would have nothing bad to say about the org.
     
  15. ooooaaaah!

    ooooaaaah! Member

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    My concern isn't Barkley's predictions, my concern is injuries. There are 5 legit teams in the West.

    Rockets, Thunder, Warriors, Clippers, and those Spurs

    Anybody who doesn't think GS is the favorite after what they did last year is skewed by emotions.


    [​IMG]
     
  16. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    It doesn't bother me at all. I can definitely make a case that the Rockets aren't elite.

    If you lined up all of the so called "elite" teams (GSW, Clippers, Rockets, Spurs, Thunder, heck even Memphis) we are definitely the weakest when it comes to second best player compared to everyone on that list and probably 3rd best player for everyone on that list. I still think we have fundamental flaws in roster construction (not enough shooting for a team that will shoot a ton) and I'm worried about defense and health.
     
  17. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Contributing Member

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    They don't hand out wins and championships based on opinions. Who cares whether people think we're elite? We just need to go out there do it. On the flip side, our opinions don't mean more than Barkley's either. What if, shocker, we aren't top four seed? Is it that implausible? Everyone thinks they're so damn smart, but there are plenty of surprises every season.
     
  18. malakas

    malakas Member

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    I find him funny but don't put any importance on his basketball predictions.
    First of all he doesn't even watch that many matches and doesn't even know the rosters of most teams. And he's biased as hell and doesnt' believe in analytics.
    He wants to be a GM and no owner trust him enough. That should tell you all.
     
  19. HouStu_Rocket

    HouStu_Rocket Member

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    In his defense we did beat them last year while only improving our health, bench, and adding an all-star caliber PG to the mix.

    Its laughable to call the Clippers elite when we are not considered elite.
     
  20. HouStu_Rocket

    HouStu_Rocket Member

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    At what point though does there become a discourse over the term "Elite"?

    Can there really be 7-8 "elite" teams in the league where 16 total teams enter the playoffs? I honestly don't even view the Cavs as an elite team because they're too often a product of an easy road to the finals (LeBron is absolutely an elite player but his team consistently loses to western powerhouses). If the Bulls can stay healthy then they could threaten to knock off the Cavs.

    Thunder aren't really elite in my eyes at this point either. They made the finals once with Kevin Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden, Thabo, Reggie Jackson, and a more serviceable Perkins. They have since lost Thabo, Harden, Jackson. Perkins isn't worth much for the minutes anymore and Durant is coming back from injury. I just don't see them actually being truly "elite" even if they have two unstoppable players.
     

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