IDK but people who dunk ferociously always end up with finger issues from hitting the rim with a ton of force. @Nook i think his defense is quite improved, not great by any means, but i'm curious why he doesnt get credit for this improvement? he was an abomination and now hes passable on defense. With a little more improvement and effort and he would be good enough defensively to justify being a starter on a contender. I truly believe this, but he is very good in transition defense positioning. Maybe thats not worth shiit to others, but i often notice him being the spearhead to hinder transition fast breaks. A lot is by design of him bailing for defense and ignoring offensive boards, but none the less he has improved dramatically at being in the right spot. I would say overall, he hasnt been that much better on ball. He still gets burned and has no pester/hands to steal. But he does fight through picks much better(sometimes better than others) and he doesnt get lost on switches hardly as often(still happens though). He is our worst starter defensively still.
Admittedly, that's true. I think you have to care A LOT to be great. I'm not CERTAIN that Jalen cares a lot. I don't get the impression that he does...but I certainly could be wrong about that.
Im just not sure why people think he doesnt care? Idk where this narrative began. Just because he isnt efficent and his shot hasnt improved, doesnt mean he didnt spend the entire summer working on it or working out to improve his game. Im not certain that jalen cares either to be fair, but i would rather believe he does because it is incredibly absurdly difficult to get to his level of play.
A lot of it, for me at least, is body language and effort on defense. It's also hard for me to believe that he's been busting his ass to improve his shot....particularly since it hasn't just not improved, but, rather, it's gotten worse. I'll also say the reverse is very true...it's very clear to see who DOES care a whole helluva lot just by watching them play. it's not inherently a character flaw...some guys are just wired different...that's true regardless of the profession
Hitting your fingers on the rim, REALLY REALLY hurts. It was enough for me to change how I choose to dunk when I played. Jalen is young, he loves the hype and excitement - at 22 I get why he dunks like that, but my guess is by 25 he may not do it often. I think that his defense is better than last year, but last year it was putrid.... so in some sense it is faint praise. He also was much improved at the end of his rookie year defensively and back slid. Overall I would say that he has shown that he can be a neutral defender in the NBA, and that is important in the NBA. Why doesn't he get more credit? I think part of it is because of things like the first half of the Blazers game..... where he takes quarters or halves off defensively. The other reason is that people want to see Jalen Green score 25+ a night, and any improvement that doesn't include that is going to upset some people. He could be as bad a defender as last year, but if he was in the top 10 of scoring, fans would be clamoring for him and calling him a star.... which isn't fair to Jalen. This year he has improved his handle, he has improved defensively (most of the year) and he has improved his passing IMO. This is one of the things he has improved at - and it is something that Royal Ivey has pushed him to do... but it can also be hard on Green, because at the same time he has Udoka and Moser telling him to hit the boards. So how does he do both? Green is a lightening rod because if you watch him, it looks easy for him because of his athleticism and fluidity...... but no one considers that the game, and the strategy behind it is not easy for him. Improvements for him are not linear and the decision making process is not as easy for him as Sengun or Thompson. People mistake this as a lack of effort - and that isn't what it is. As the year is almost over - I have concluded that IMO Green deserves another year as a starter with the Rockets. While his offense went down this season, he was asked to improve in a lot of areas and he has improved in some of those areas. His defense is inconsistent but overall better and he picked up on some of the scheme issues he did not under Silas. His handle and passing has improved as well, and I believe are adequate at this point. He also has been held accountable for the first time in years - and is making up for the Silas years. While I don't think he is the most disciplined player, I do believe that he is a lot better natural shooter than what he has shown so far. He is certainly more disciplined in his mechanics that Gerald Green, and should be a better shooter than him. So I am pretty confident with proper focus, effort and training that he can at least shoot 36-38% on 3's and I believe that with proper training he can get stronger, improve his hands and finish better - and we could see at least some of these improvements as soon as early next year. Ultimately Green is going to need to WANT it - he isn't Jordan or Kobe or Wade or Harden.... those guys would not have done what Green did under Silas.... Green was allowed to take it easy and that's what he did. However, with more discipline, and with better training - I do think that they can get him to work smart and hard enough to improve those areas in his game. He is at a cross roads, but I am not as pessimistic as some.
I would agree with this. He cares - but I don't think he is driven like some guys. I also think he lacks the focus and consistency of the absolute greats. That isn't his fault, some people are just born that way. I wouldn't call him lazy or anything like that - I just think he has average drive for an NBA player - but with his talent, he can be a very very good player - just not likely great.
I don't even know what's the point to defend Jalen. The Achilles heels of this team is shooting, especially beyond the arc and the NBA 3P% average is 36.7% this year. If Jalen cannot even make the league average, all the other intangibles are meaningless. Let's talk about the some realistic issues. Jalen has improved his defense, but his defense is still nowhere close to the level of Tari or Amen, as evidenced by the plus/minus on/off the court. Jalen's shooing is inferior than Cam, and his ball handling is still in development. Jalen is eligible for extension while other players I mentioned are still on the rookie contracts. Assume you are the boss, you have employees perform better and command lower salaries, there's no brainer you'll choose them over someone who command higher salary and perform not as good as the other employees. The new NBA bargaining agreement has a hard cap and you don't want to go over the cap unless your team is set. Sengun is going to command a near-max or max extension and we need money to extend Jabari and Tari after next year. There is not a lot of money to pay Jalen and Jalen is not going to accept a less than 10-mil per contract. More likely or not, Jalen won't be on the Rocket's rosters after the trade deadline next year.
You think someone will give Jalen a contract like this? Unless he has a breakout year next year I don't think he'll get this much.
Hitting your fingers on the rim, REALLY REALLY hurts. It was enough for me to change how I choose to dunk when I played. Jalen is young, he loves the hype and excitement - at 22 I get why he dunks like that, but my guess is by 25 he may not do it often. Most dunkers eventually dial it back. Harden was quick to just lay it up instead of dunk it. I think that his defense is better than last year, but last year it was putrid.... so in some sense it is faint praise. He also was much improved at the end of his rookie year defensively and back slid. Overall I would say that he has shown that he can be a neutral defender in the NBA, and that is important in the NBA. but why is it faint praise if he improved the worst part about his overall game? Is 35% instead of 31% more important then his improvement defensively?Im curious if this was a coordinated area of improvement over the off-season with udoka? Why doesn't he get more credit? I think part of it is because of things like the first half of the Blazers game..... where he takes quarters or halves off defensively. I can feel that but does not every single player have games like this? i would say yes. i would also say jalen has more than i like. The other reason is that people want to see Jalen Green score 25+ a night, and any improvement that doesn't include that is going to upset some people. He could be as bad a defender as last year, but if he was in the top 10 of scoring, fans would be clamoring for him and calling him a star.... which isn't fair to Jalen. This year he has improved his handle, he has improved defensively (most of the year) and he has improved his passing IMO. Offense does sell tickets. I just think it was concerted effort to make Jalen a more well rounded player this off-season rather than one-dimensional. I agree hes improved in those areas, as well as rebounding. His FTr% was also improved early this year before his big meltdown. I'd love to see that come back around. Overall that is solid growth in yr 3 imo. It doesnt make him our "scoring" guard or our "shooting" guard, but it does make us a better "team". I think that gets lost sometimes. This is one of the things he has improved at - and it is something that Royal Ivey has pushed him to do... but it can also be hard on Green, because at the same time he has Udoka and Moser telling him to hit the boards. So how does he do both? I think he has done both. Glad Ivey has him doing that becuase imo hes very good at getting back into position. I think hes improved rebounding defensively, and i think this is where it would suit his strengths so i understand Udoka's focus. I think he can and has done both fwiw. Green is a lightening rod because if you watch him, it looks easy for him because of his athleticism and fluidity...... but no one considers that the game, and the strategy behind it is not easy for him. Improvements for him are not linear and the decision making process is not as easy for him as Sengun or Thompson. People mistake this as a lack of effort - and that isn't what it is. He is incredibly naturally gifted. I dont think hes ever HAD to "think" the game until this year really. As the year is almost over - I have concluded that IMO Green deserves another year as a starter with the Rockets. While his offense went down this season, he was asked to improve in a lot of areas and he has improved in some of those areas. His defense is inconsistent but overall better and he picked up on some of the scheme issues he did not under Silas. His handle and passing has improved as well, and I believe are adequate at this point. He also has been held accountable for the first time in years - and is making up for the Silas years. I'm glad to hear this from you as you can be frustrated with him pretty often in the heat of the moments lol. While I don't think he is the most disciplined player, I do believe that he is a lot better natural shooter than what he has shown so far. He is certainly more disciplined in his mechanics that Gerald Green, and should be a better shooter than him. So I am pretty confident with proper focus, effort and training that he can at least shoot 36-38% on 3's and I believe that with proper training he can get stronger, improve his hands and finish better - and we could see at least some of these improvements as soon as early next year. IMO, and im no expert at all, by any means, but it seems his shooting issue is at the gather and not the form/release itself. Often times i notice hes gathering at or below the waist when he cant make a bucket. While, when hes shooting well its more at the abdomen or above the waist. He seems to have side spin on his shot as well which gives him poor luck at the rim vs a better more natural backspin which would give better luck at the rim. I think the elongated mechanics from the lower gather amplifies all this poorly in his favor. Ultimately Green is going to need to WANT it - he isn't Jordan or Kobe or Wade or Harden.... those guys would not have done what Green did under Silas.... Green was allowed to take it easy and that's what he did. However, with more discipline, and with better training - I do think that they can get him to work smart and hard enough to improve those areas in his game. Also agree with this. Im not expecting him to be an all-timer though. I just want him to be a star or fringe star, and he definitely has that in him. Some people are maniacal about it (kobe)while some others prefer a little more life balance(harden). He is at a cross roads, but I am not as pessimistic as some. Crossroads it may be, and ill forever be the optimist
The praise for his defense is faint, because while it has improved, it still isn't that good - so you don't hear a lot about it. I don't know to what degree Udoka worked with Green on defense, I know that Ivey did - and he had to explain to Green a lot of basic concepts that he either wasn't exposed to by Silas or he did not pay attention to. Also, he was for the first time expected to try hard defensively, and playing both sides of the court is extremely hard for a scoring guard. If the Rockets get a real rim protector at center, and slide Sengun to the 4 spot - it will get easier for Green defensively as well. Does Green take off more possessions or quarters than most players? I would agree that it is too common in the NBA for players to do it - but I would say that Green still does it way too often. It is also hard to know how much of it is a lack of effort and how much of it is a lack of focus. It is obvious that at times Green struggles to focus - that will likely improve some as he gets older. Green's issue shooting is a lack of consistency and focus - which is also why I think it will improve. They will try to get it down to muscle memory for him. As for being an all timer - it isn't quite as simple as life balance. Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and others all did things away from the court. It has to do with desire and focus - and I haven't seen that from him. As for James Harden, he worked extremely hard and still does.... he would go to clubs, restaurants, etc... but he always had grueling workouts outside of one season early in his career where he learned he couldn't afford to take days off. Harden would be in the weight room after almost every Rockets game - win of lose. He would go out to the club, and then at 2 am hit the gym for workouts.... used to drive assistant coaches nuts because he would call them in to work with him. Harden's favorite coach of all time in the NBA is Kelvin Sampson - and that guy is all work when you are in the building. I agree with you that Green is capable of being a fringe star and maybe more. If he just goes from shooting 31% to 36% from 3 and gets a little stronger, he will see his offensive production take a huge jump.
Cam Nova More ......12 ppg in 17 minutes......that is absolutely crazy.... This is the First and Final Chapter....Dude is a beast.
I don't believe I've ever said he was efficient, or that he was a star player or anything of the sort right now so I'm not actually sure what you think you're arguing? None of that addresses the point I'm making. People keep saying "anybody given that green light would put up the numbers he did" and I'm simply asking "so why have they never done it until now?" It's that simple. People keep making sweeping declarations that Green is a bust or never going to be this that or the other and then use "anybody would've done it" to justify it. But nobody did apparently, and in fact that narrative of "anybody can do it" doesn't hold up in the slightest, it's a fantasy people are using to justify their confirmation bias. Nothing more, nothing less.
What is the relevance of a handful of games? What is relevant is what he has done over a long period of time and what improvement he has shown. We have nearly three years of performance to judge him against, and the era in which he plays. So far he has been very pedestrian when adjusted for the minutes and shots he has gotten. Does that mean he will be a bust? I don't know, it is possible based on his performance so far - but I personally believe that he will start shooting better and will play in the NBA for at least a decade if he chooses to. He certainly will score over 20 points a game next year just by improving his 3 point shooting, which will also keep players from sagging off of him. Jalen Green has scored 40 or more points 5 times in over 200 games in his career. The Rockets lost four of those five games. Green shot very well from 3 in all of those games, shooting 24/52 on three pointers. He averaged 25 shot attempts in those games and 38 minutes a game. Those games are definitely outliers based on his career so far... as he has not been a good three point shooter so far in his career. If a player is the #1 option on offense, and he doesn't need to worry about winning, and he gets hot from 3 and gets lots of minutes. It is basically a red herring.
The answer to your question "why have they never done it" is very simple. "They" wouldnt be allowed to take many shots if "they" shot at the same efficiency as Green in the past 3 years. Whatever Jalen Green was allowed to do under Silas is not allowed to happen under any real NBA coach. We are seeing it this year with Udoka already. Counting stats at low efficiency while losing almost every game is one of the least desirable things you want from a guard. You shouldnt be asking the question "why haven't they done it", the question is more like "Why was Green allowed to play such bad basketball?"
