Players demand trades and teams can do the trades. Even average players can demand trades. Nate Robinson demanded a trade from the Knicks. I was surprised they gave him up so easily to the Celtics. Remember Steve Francis? He didn't even play for the Grizzlies before the Rockets got him. I wonder if the Rockets can pull it off again, but with an established player.
The only deal involving TOR with Jeffries I can see is Jeffries for Banks + Evans. Two smaller expiring contracts the Rockets might be able to trade later in the season. Raptors incentive would mostly be to move an unhappy player in Banks.
I heard Mo-ray say les is willing to go over the luxury tax. make it rain mr. Alexander. Did anyone else hear Mo-ray slip up during the conference and say "well, L-, mr alexander..." he e caught himself to say "Mr. Alexander"
What about the teams that have cap space? Pure cap space is more valable in making a deal than any expiring contract (guarenteed or not). Here's some reasons: - If you want to acquire Bosh for a starting salary of let's say $16M (use any number you like here) and Toronto is willing to do the deal in exchange for a player(s) making $9M. A $12M non-guarenteed expiring contract doesn't help here. It can't be broken up and used in smaller parts. Conversly, a team with $12M in cap space could do that deal. - If you want to do a S&T for a FA and the players new starting salary is an increase of more than 20% over their previous salary then that player becomes a Base Year Compensation player. The result it that that players's old team can only take back 50% of his outgoing salary . An expiring contract still counts it's full value in a trade and doesn't help you cover that BYC difference. If you have enough cap space it's not a problem. Example: Let's say you want to S&T for a player and his new starting salary of $14M makes him a BYC player. You have to be able to absorb $14M in incoming salary while only sending out $7M to the players old team. A team with $7M in cap space would be able to take on that extra $7M in salary. - Finally, if you use cap space to make a deal work, then the FA's old team also gets a large trade exception (equal to the amount of cap space used) which is appealing to the trading team. An example of this was when Rashard Lewis decided to go to Orlando. Orlando had enough cap space to outright sign him and Seattle didn't have to help Lewis make another $25+ million in total salary. So why did they agree to do a sign and trade for basically nothing in return (future conditional second round pick)? They did the deal to get a trade exception of around $9M. As it's been noted, the Free Agents will first decide where they want to go and then most every team will try and work out a S&T. In many cases they may need to pull in a team with cap space to help make the deal work. Luckily, there's plenty of teams with cap space to work with. The hard part is convincing the FA to choose to play for you.
But what if Morey lays out the red carpet for Bosh and decides this is where he wants to be? So he goes to tor management and is adamant about coming to Houston. Toronto would have no choice but to make a deal work with us, no? If Tor thinks bosh is bluffing, well then we will leave the tactics up to Morey and Bosh's agent.
Rubio will probably be Moreys target this offseason. The trade sets the Rox up with enough assets to get Rubio.
The bottom line is one of these guys (Bosh, Wade or Lebron...yeah right, Lebron) has to PICK Houston and only Houston for it to happen. We have plenty of chips to trade, but like aelliott said, these teams trading away the max players will want to do so with one of the teams with cap room so the new team can absorb most of the salary. So really our only chance is to do some heavy recruiting, and getting Bosh to outright demand a S&T to Houston- we are very fortunate now to have the Knicks picks to offer and/or ours. But in the open market, the teams with the cap room have a lot more leverage, even with sign-and-trades. The issue with the Knicks is that they don't have anything of worth anymore to offer in a S&T, so in essence they will be handcuffing Clevelands/Toronto's desire to S&T with them. On another note- I think Morey's persistence in getting Amare is getting him at a bargain. I don't think we're willing to pay him anywhere near max money, so if he wants that in the offseason I don't see anyway he'll be here.
How many times does that ever happen? The answer is almost never. If that was the case, New York wouldn't have cleared cap room -- they just needed to convince Wade and LeBron that NY was where they wanted to be, right? In general, players either look to maximize their current contract, a future contract, or in the case of some veterans, win a ring. In a potential sign and trade, Toronto holds all the cards. Bosh could bluff he'd take the MLE, but no one would believe him. It's a question of do we have what they want. We probably have the young pieces (and you'd better be prepared to lose some combo of Brooks, Hill, and the picks), but Toronto may not want contracts to match salary, even if they're expiring. If they lose Bosh, they probably have to start over. There's an argument that they'd be smart to grab a couple of assets and bite the salaries for a year, but I could also see them just wanting to keep cap space. A player like Battier would have limited appeal to a team losing its superstar beyond his contract -- they don't want to guy to help them be mediocre, that's the worst scenario. One final thought -- max level players signed and traded to teams over the cap have usually cost the acquiring team a fortune. The Knicks lost a pair of lotto picks to get Eddy Curry.
Diehard and Aelliott, If getting Bosh to pick us is the first hurdle, and I agree it is, I think we have a legitimate shot at it. This is a tailor made situation where he comes in as a No 1. Lead dog with proven help around him, and management that is brilliant. As far as the BYC situation, that is a matter of the Rockets being only able to send out $8MM, while bringing in Bosh's $16MM contract. There are a couple of answers to that. First, Alexander has said we'd go into Lux tax land for the right player. Bosh is that guy. Second, could we not clear salary to balance that through a separate trade? From Toronto's perspective, I would think Coangelo knows that he's not going to be able to rebuild by signing big FA's. He's going straight to the draft, and nobody has better draft commodities than we do. (I suppose Utah could shock and awe by offering up the pick it gets from NY). I keep going back to those NY picks and how we can directly boost their value by taking Bosh away from NY.
I agree, the odds weigh heavily toward the big FA's staying home. The wild card is lebron b/c of his professed desire to be a mogul. As for toronto, can they identify a team that has young talent and picks, and has the cap room to absorb the big salary? I can't. I don't think any team in the league has both. In this economy, perhaps the economics will dictate Toroto's choice. That's beyond our control. But if it's aobut talent and picks, we're a factor.
I have no doubt we'll be in play -- what 4 wouldn't want to play in Houston with the way we've lined up Brooks-Martin-Ariza-and Yao to surround you in the starting 5, with a respectable bench? It doesn't hurt that he's from Texas (but you can say the same thing for Dallas -- play with Dirk, Butler, Kidd, and Marion). But even if we were to be Bosh's first choice, we would have to be far and away #1 for that to be any sort of leverage. Bosh will not be a BYC player since he already makes $15m. (But if he were, we would have an extremely difficult time making the salaries match, regardless of Les' willingness to go into the lux tax.) Maybe. To be fair, Toronto did manage to snag Turkoglu last year -- probably the biggest name out there that switched teams. They're not a terrible FA spot. The question will be his willingness to take on salary. They can let Bosh walk and have cap space to facilitate other teams looking to clear cap space (see Utah giving away Eric Maynor to get rid of Harpring). We're fortunate to have a few expiring contracts -- they'd be at least willing to talk to us, but I would be prepared for an asking price of Jeffries, Battier (as expirings), Brooks, Hill, and a NY pick (if they haven't signed Lebron or Wade by then). They also may make you take back Jarrett Jack's contract. Sign and trades will not come cheap.
As others have mentioned, Dallas (where Bosh grew up) could offer Dampier's non-guaranteed contract, plus Beaubois and picks. I personally think you'll find getting a disgruntled/out of favor star under contract (like Jamison, Butler, or Martin this year) will come much cheaper.
The only players I would trade Brooks for would be LeBron, Wade, or Chris Paul. I like Bosh, but trading Brooks for him strikes me as too much of a lateral move. That's doubly true for Stoudemire, who won't play as well without Nash. I want an upgrade, not a sidegrade.
Daryl seems to think differently in your opinion on how often players agree to s&t. If they know from the get go that Bosh wasn't going to resign, they were going to have to start over regardless of the s&t or not. They have to be of the mindset of at least getting something for Bosh. Whether it be picks or young talent, they would be served right to explore this option from a tor standpoint.
I think it doesn't take a "Rocket" scientist to see that Morey is open and ready for a S&T. Morey also is definitely interested in getting Amare Stoudemire on this team. The rockets offered Scola, Battier, and a 1st Pick for Stoudemire which (from what I've read) was denied only on the fact that the Suns wanted to waive the physicals to speed the deal at the deadline which the Rockets balked at. Daryl Morey has proven that he will not stop going after a player he and the team likes (Kevin Martin case in point). I can imagine the Suns are out having dinner with Amare and trying to smooth things over but since he's been shopped more than the "slap chop" he's leaving. I'm thinking the Suns and Rockets plan to 'seriously' revisit this at the end of the season. 2 things I know 1) Morey wants Amare on this team 2) Morey seems to get what he wants a lot get ready I believe for this to happen.. I can get behind a Brooks, Martin, Ariza, Amare, Yao lineup
The Oklahoma City Thunder. Frankly, if I were Chris Bosh and I wanted to maximize my chance to play for a contender for the next DECADE (to hell with 1-2 years), I would hitch my wagon to Kevin Durant and the Thunder organization. They are the ONLY team in the league with the combination of great management (Sam Presti is one of the top five GMs in the league IMHO), a franchise player still on a rookie scale contract (Durant), a ton of additional building blocks/assets (Russell Westbrook, Jeff Green, James Harden, Serge Ibaka, B.J. Mullens and future first round picks), AND a fairly large amount of cap room. Of course, Bosh would have to want to move to Oklahoma City.
