Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff considers homosexuality to be immoral

Oh, please! If you think homosexuality is immoral, then you are homophobic. MM likes to dance around the question so he doesn't have to own up to his beleifs, and you are his choreographer.

BTW, look who's being self-rightous now! You need to chill out and take this debate for what it is: a debate. Nobody is trying to slander anybody here (except maybe you).

 

MM: No good post goes unpunished.

 

This is quite possibly the most asinine thing I've read on this forum and that's saying something. Thinking something is immoral doesn't mean you're scared of it. It's two completely different things.

 

I'm just posting based on what I see day in, day out. There is almost 0% middle ground here because a lot of the posters who hold the middle ground just don't post here anymore. It's become all about one side calling the other the most extreme name possible and the other side responding in kind.

The purpose of each thread in here seems to be "how fast can I piss off the posters who disagree with me?"

Take this "debate" for example. MadMax, probably one of the only posters here who constantly questions his own beliefs and tries to find a meaningful middle ground, is getting lambasted by someone who knows absolutely nothing about him because his views are different. That's how it works on here, now. It's as if there is no room for posters like MM because they don't fit into the one side vs. the other mentality that everyone on here seems to think is required for political debate.

Add to that the fact that half of what qualifies as a viewpoint on here consists of reading internet sites, blogs and Wikipedia *throws up* and parroting what you read.

I mean this guy is saying that because MadMax believes homosexuality is immoral he is scared of gay people. There's obviously no middle ground here, either you fully endorse all aspects of homosexuality or you're a homophobe.

 

It doesn't mean that at all. You can disagree with the concept of homosexuality or call it immoral, but that doesn't make you homophobic. People like MadMax or Rhester may not agree with the idea of homosexuality but they probably are just as respectful if not more so to homosexuals than many people who claim to support gay rights in their entirety.

You're missing the whole point of their posts. The argument is that even if a person opposes the idea of homosexuality, it's not in their position to judge or treat them any different. That's why, as MadMax, pointed out, he probably would support equal rights for gays (correct me if I'm wrong). Your opinion of homosexuality only goes as far as yourself and your faith. It's God's job to judge, not us and consequently our opinions are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and our only job is to be good people and treat others with respect.

This debate is far less bigoted and oppressive as you make it out to be. Posts like this do demonstrate an aura of self-righteousness that makes you less credible.

 

What the heck are you talking about. I can tell you that MM has put a lot of thought and questioning into this. First of all for MM and those of us who aren't homosexual, we won't have the full grasp on what it means to be homosexual, and where it comes from. So it is natural to question something different than what you are familiar with and have explored.

He isn't trying to not own up to anything. His very posts speak about someone who is working through it all.

You may not be trying to slander MM, but you are selling him way short regarding his questioning, and the depth with which he looks at these issues goes far beyond someone who simply tries to search for answers to back up his own prejudices.

If you are going to look at this for a debate, then look at the answers, information, and posts of the posters and debate that, but don't accuse someone who is going through the searching process in an open way here on the boards as trying not to own up to his own beliefs.

 

Hmm... how can "it" ever be two things?

 

Dude, why don't you go get a rectal exam? I'm sure you'd enjoy it. Ask hotballa.

Max and thegary and Ottomaton are three of my favorite posters. You post like you're fighting for a seat on a john boat, getting your rig ready for a bit of trolling. The three fellows I mentioned are having a disagreement, which will work itself out. In my opinion, you're just looking to make a fuss.



D&D. Finger Food.

 

gary

why u don' like to git emale?

send mees one

 

It won't be worth it unless he releases gas in the general direction of his former high school crush. It's just not the same.

 

Look, MM has refused to engage in this debate from the start. Then he goes off on me a few posts back. Nowhere has he disputed my logic. His only argument has ever been, "I already said that I don't know how I feel about homosexuality." (paraphrase)

You accusing me of not debating the issue is unfair when you look at MM's posts in this thread. I know he is a more respected poster here, but come on! He hasn't contribuded jack to this debate. At least I've gone out on a limb and stated my opinion (and tried to back it up).

I find it funny that everybody jumps on me when I say something the slightest bit inflamitory, but whenever I make an argument, everybody runs for the hills!

 

Dude, you already won. Why are you still here?

 

Is this what you really believe? You are the Clutch BBS equivalent of the nouveau-riche.

 

You may continue your tantrum now, sir.

 

CreepyFloyd Numero Dos?

 

I am just saying that the fact that he isn't sure how he feels, is precisely because he is questioning, and searching, and trying to understanding. It isn't because he doesn't want to own up to something that he has secretly already decided.

I understand that you have stated your opinion, and on some of it I have agreement with you. But I think the reason why people seem to run from the hills is that you don't seem to be trying to understand the other side. You generalized Christians to fit one mold with regard to homosexuality.

I think that Rhester, and others are on record in this thread as stating that many Christians and Christian churches have been intolerant, shown a lack of compassion, and overhyped the issue of homosexuality.

I'm in agreement with that, and in favor equal rights in every single area for homosexuals. As to whether it is right or wrong, that isn't for me or Mad Max, or Rhestor or you to ultimately decide. I think we all probably fall at different places on the spectrum as far as that goes. But what I think all of us are saying is that one characteristic of a person is not the whole of that person, and people should be given a chance on more than that one aspect.

I think that two people who act out of love, honesty and commitment aren't doing anything immoral and it doesn't matter what their sexual preferences are. That is where my thoughts are at the moment. That is what I believe. Maybe I'm wrong to believe that way.

But I would say, and hope and believe that many other Christians would agree with, is that we need to get away from the judging of homosexuals, and get on with the compassion, and respecting of them as people.

Anyway, if you want people to debate with you, be willing to explore their ideas while professing your own, and asking them to listen to yours. Don't generalize them in a derogatory way, claim you don't need to investigate the New Testament beyond a very shallow understanding, but still justify your denouncing of those teachings. You don't have to believe what they believe, but if they take the time to try and tell you where they are coming from in the debate, don't deride that, and blow it off.

 

Good post. I agree that I came off as a dick, but I've appologized for that numerous times and reformed my ways.

Also, I never ever ever ever blew off anybody's argument ever. Ever. I've responded to every argument against my point (which have been few and far between). This is in stark contrast to MM and Ottoman, who have completely ignored my arguments (for the most part).

Trust me, I want to understand the other side. Currently, I don't. Nobody seems willing to explain it.

 

It is true that you have apologized. I meant to recognize that in my post, and left it out. But that apology still seems to be followed by you assuming you know MM's position, and asserting that he is hiding it while claiming something else. So while you do apologize it seems like you are still lumping folks together.

 

I think the problem is that MadMax has given you an answer already but one that you don't find satisfactory and now you are coming off as badgering him.

I can sympathize with your view that rationality should dictate things and that there should be a rational answer to why Christians consider homosexualtiy a sin but the truth is that we humans aren't always dicated by rationality.

MadMax can't answer you anymore than he has that this is a matter of faith. As a matter of his personal faith he can't explain any better why he interprets the Bible as such. If he could then you would likely share that faith. Since you don't I'm not sure what more you can expect to get from him.