Gimme a break. Was it Van Gundy who let the Mavs guards torch them? He can only do so much, then it's up to the players to perform. Van Gundy is the coach, deal with it.
If your "world" consists of Faos, DavidS, and NewYorker, I am glad the only interaction I have with it is through this board
A lot of people here are way underestimating PJ's abilities, and edc is way overestimating them. The crappy thing about coaching a talented team is that if you lose, you get a bunch of blame, and if you win you're labeled as "well, that's no accomplishment because your team was talented." Sigh, I don't believe PJ is the greatest coach ever, but he by no means is a crappy coach. Having the most talent in the League doesn't guarantee championships. It takes chemistry, matchups, luck, and good game management....it just takes a whole bunch of things and there is no 100% correct formula. It's hard as hell and only 1 team each year can win won. PJ has coached 9 championship teams...9 of em. Now does that mean he's the greatest ever? Nope. Was he benifitted by great talent? Yep. Would another coach do just as well with those teams? Maybe. But the fact is it was PJ who coached them. Those 9 teams followed his instructions, followed his strategies. He managed the timeouts, the player substitutions, and called the plays. Jordan did a lot of great things on his own, but you never heard things like "PJ can't coach, so I just do my own thing" coming from MJ. My memory brings up many occasions where Phil Jackson called plays that worked in crunch time, offensively AND Defensively. People tend to forget that there are Defensive strategies too, and PJ's championship teams weren't just ubertalented on O, but played great team D. And one could make legitimate arguments about those Bulls teams defeating at least equally talented teams (Magic's Lakers, Clyde's Blazers, Barkley's Suns, GP and Kemp's SuperSonics, and Stockten and Malone's Jazz). I won't argue that the Lakers played talented East teams..jeez the East was terrible for 5 straight years (1999-2003). But I do consider it a good accomplishment for them to beat the Kings and Spurs and Blazers during those years in the Western Finals (the true NBA finals...ala those 49ers/Cowboys NFC finals). I mean, I won't say that PJ outcoached all those teams, but they didn't outcoach him either. A lot of luck and favorable calls went the Lakers' way, but they also delivered the knockout punches when they had to, and withstood the blows to win each series. And then the year Jordan was out, PJ coached Pippen and Kukoc to a 55 win season, 2nd round playoffs 7 game series with Pippen whining and benching himself for not having a game winning play drawn up for him (Kukoc made the shot). Look, I don't think it's paramount to have PJ here, and as stated above, he ain't the best coach ever. And I believe having him won't guarantee a thing. However, the PJ bashing is rediculous. The man ain't no scrub coach. And so what if he ONLY can lead uber talented teams to the championship? That's fine with me. I don't want him, but if I accept that argument from you PJ naysayers, then I'd say make the Rockets ubertalented, and sign PJ, which would guarantee a trip to the championship. Of course, I don't buy that argument, because unlike you surface analyzing fools, there is no formula, this ain't a science and we are not God or clarevoyent. 100 things have to go right to win a championship. PJ doesn't have to be here to do so, but that doesn't mean he's no good.
Deuce's use of "world" was tongue and cheek and not to be taken literally (ignoring your wink -- it was supposed to resolve you from playing dumb, right?). But I would think that this "world" we talk about is a little broader than just three individuals (Those that support JVG). Namely, KaiSeR SoZe, Willis25, xiki, YallMean, pippendagimp, studogg, Rule0001, RocksMillenium, VesceySux, Pat, Chilly_Pete, StupidMoniker, dandorotik, rockets-#1, Easy, kpsta, deadlybulb, GRENDAL, swilkins, SWTsig, Rockets2K, SwoLy-D, Rashmon, Stack24. And these people are just those that are within *this* thread. You intentionally misunderstood Deuce's point just so you could wink as us -- play dumb. In reality, you knew what he meant all along. How nice. Just so you could ATTEMPT to make a point by reversing a generalization and intentionally TRY to misrepresent. Heh...classic!
Seriously, back away from the Van Gundy colored glasses. There are people who would prefer Phil Jackson, there are people who could go either way, and there are a handful of strong Van Gundy backers. That much is obvious to anyone with eyes. Hence the "wink." Incidentally, That you and I are on opposite ends of that spectrum pleases me no end.
Is funny that you use accuse me of wearing "Van Gundy colored glasses" and ignore any good things that JVG has done. That's why I take the wait and see attitude. I let the guy have his time and prove his worth. You on the other hand want him gone BEFOER he can prove himself. In reality, you don't want him to have his time. You want him gone BEFORE he has a chance to win a title (your worst nightmare -- figuratively speaking). Because you KNOW that if he DOES win a title, everything you have said is crap. Each title will bury you. You would hate it if JVG wins a tile with the Rox, wouldn't you? Kinda sucks to root against the Rox, knowing that any success of the Rox, JVG will get some of the credit (i.e. title). Now, lets talk about "handful." There are a handful of those that would prefer Phil Jackson -- hence, there's not much voice on this BBS in support of Phil! There are more than a handful that only care about winning and improvement -- I'd say MOST here do. Thus, they choose to stay with JVG for the time being -- they are willing let him prove himself. So, to imply that they could "go either way" is not telling the whole truth. They will only change their tune if things go bad...but at least they support JVG because they recognize the good things he's done. The last group -- strong JVG supporters -- are those that choose to post/refute. Because it is they that choose to post and expose your circular reasoning and rhetoric. Not everyone can do that. By the way, I have no problem with Jackson's coaching style. It's a hell of a lot better than anything Rudy could have come up with. I can recognize that. But you can't. There's a fine line between "the coach is the reason for winning" VS "the players are the reason for winning." It's about both. But the degree to which these play out differ a bit from coach to coach. I still think all of those listed are the top tier coaches. Carlisle is moving up the ranks. I would take the same position if Brown, Sloan, Popovich or Phil were here. Van Gundy gets the same critical analysis. And all of those coaches, coach the game with an excellent blend of x's and o's + heart. Your dislike of Van Gundy's personality is what blinds you to reality -- "crap colored glasses." You don't like him. We get it. But lets not pretend that has no influence on your desire to have him replaced. So, if there someone that is wearing "glasses" it's YOU. It's going to be funny how many members here are "pleased to no end" when we win a title -- under JVG -- and watch you squirm in your cognitive dissonance. Keep yapping. You are just burying yourself.
Nine seasons. JVG has been an NBA head coach for nine seasons. RT took a lottery team to an NBA championship in a little over two. JVG has HAD chances to win a title. Perhaps he is simply not a championship-caliber coach, and not the best option for the Rockets, particularly when the man tied for number of championships, and the man with the highest "championship percentage" as a head coach is available. [please note the lack of smiley]
Question: would you compare the talent level of Van Gundy's Knicks with the Bulls of 1991-1993 and 1996-1998 or the Bulls of 1994? If you're honestly going to say that: Ewing-Sprewell-Camby= Jordan-Pippen-Rodman Well, have fun winning that argument. Now, if you compare the 1999 Knicks with the 1994 Bulls: Ewing-Sprewell-Houston=Pippen-Kukoc-Grant I think that's a fairly even comparison. So, then, comparing two years when JVG and PJ had relatively evenly talented teams, JVG took his to the Finals and PJ didn't. That makes JVG a better coach. Right? I think PJ's a great coach. But, when put in a situation having equal talent as coaches such as Jeff Van Gundy, he has come up short.
Well, I think it's truly due to the lack of objectivity on EDC's part. You know, most of us on this board are reasonably intelligent, and while it's true that we are die-hard Rockets supporters, we are objective enough to levy criticism when it is fairly due. Criticizing JVG at the beginning of the year was fair. Criticizing JVG for the game 7 debacle was fair. Saying that PJ or RT would be a better coach for this team is somewhat fair, although truly a matter of personal opinion. However, using 99+% of your posts on a board to point out a coach's faults while acknowledging very little, if anything at all, that the person has done well is extremely biased and NOT FAIR. EDC knows it and we all know it, too. He just simply doesn't care about being objective, and that's fine- but most of us prefer to see things with slightly less tinted glasses. There's a reason why some posters receive more criticism than others. And it usually has to do with either a fairness or personal agenda issue. If you did a random word association with posters on this board, you'd get something like: dandorotik- Rockets fan DavidS- Rockets fan Stack24- Rockets fan EDC- Van Gundy hater That about sums it up.
Whatever. I was here long before Jeff Van Gundy was a blip on the Rockets radar, and will be here long after he is just a bad memory...
His memory will be a lot better than film director Rudy T during the last few years with his failed movies "Dribblemania" and the "Cat in the Hat". Rudy will be remembered for his hit "Don't Underestimate the Heart of a Champion" though. JVG will be remembered for his blockmuster "Emperor McMing"
Is that the best you can come up with? Clinging on to a spelling error? If PJ was a viable option, trust me CD would have gotten it done. PJ is not coming back this year. He is going on a Zen Hietus until the next superstar duo emerges. He's not a teacher, he's in it for the fame and glory. If he was doing it for the love of the game, he would have taken the Knicks job (his hometown team and the team he played for). Instead, he will be lurking in his Zen quarters wating to take over a championship caliber team so he nudges them over the top and claims all the praise. The real coaches are the ones who gut it out and lay it on the line. JVG works more in a week than PJ works in a month. PJ has his assistants doing the work and he plays Dr. Phil (no pun intended) between Shaq and Kobe/Jordan and Pippen. JVG is more of a man than PJ has ever been
??? I made no comment on your spelling, just your hallucination. ...and has infinitely fewer titles to show for it. Incidentally, I don't know how you know, but I've never given much thought to the "manhood" of JVG, Phil Jackson, or any other NBA coach for that matter. However, given the difference in height, hand size, and foot size, my guess would be that your supposition is incorrect.
Do not insult. No reference needed to hallucinations. You replied to a reference I made which had the word "blockbuster" misspelled, so I thought you were making fun of the word and not my idea. As far as manhood, I didn't mean to go in that direction, but since you are arguing manhood, I'll say somthing about that. Men are measured by heart, determination, passion, hand speed, foot speed and ability to cling to someone's leg(JVG), not the size of their body parts as you want us to believe (Phil) lol
That, of course, is why Jackson was in the NBA for years, and why JVG got no higher than starting at some Division IV school. Again, . What is "Emperor McMing" if not a hallucination? Right now T-Mac and Yao are a good combination, but aren't dominating the league. There is reason to seriously question whether they will ever achieve that level, particularly if surrounded by the geriatrics JVG prefers.
According to you, JVG is making personnel decisions as well. Phil Jackson didn't negotiate the contracts of his Lakers did he? IF that's the case let's hire PJ to be our GM, not our coach. You make your arguments eloquently, however they seem to be founded on hatred more than fact. Chill out man and give JVG a chance. Pretend PJ was a monk for a second. Hold that thought. Hold it ........ Hold it......... What available coach would you want? Jeff Von Genius
edc, I thought it was really great when you provided the Rudy T show for downloading (thanks), but I have to say that I am a little bit surprised about just how passionate you seem to be about getting rid of JVG... it almost seems like all your posts somehow appear to be aimed at furthering that agenda...or is that impression incorrect?
