Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Census Boycott?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by JuanValdez, Mar 28, 2018.

Page 6 of 8

NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

Idiot-in-chief tweets out in an effort to get his "all important" citizenship question, despite the courts determining its unnecessary and its basis was actually a lie (as shown in posts before), in bad faith, costly. Keep in mind the "all important" citizen question hasn't been included in a census given to all U.S. households since 1950, and even then that census only asked where born and if foreign born, if naturalized. The next census (1960) even dropped that "citizenship" question, only asked where born.

#101 NewRoxFan, Apr 1, 2019

NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

#102 NewRoxFan, Apr 1, 2019

FranchiseBlade likes this.
NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

#103 NewRoxFan, Apr 5, 2019

FranchiseBlade likes this.
dachuda86 Member

Joined:

May 3, 2008

Messages:

16,308

Likes Received:

3,580

REEKO_HTOWN said: ↑

If there's a citizenship question on the census I ain't filling it out. I'll let the State of Texas deal with the loss of funds. It's a shame because I love the census and think it's cool that you can trace back generations with it.
Click to expand...

maybe fill it out for your descendents then...

#104 dachuda86, Apr 6, 2019
KingCheetah Contributing Member

Joined:

Jun 3, 2002

Messages:

56,240

Likes Received:

48,105

...

#105 KingCheetah, Apr 6, 2019
NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

And you can guess which justices voted which way. This ruling is such an obvious partisan vote by the USSC... and shame on those that will rule in favor of this. Read the whole thread... truly shameful.

#106 NewRoxFan, Apr 23, 2019
NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

We know the president and his admin routinely lie to get their way. Do we now need to worry if the conservative members of the U.S. Supreme Court will be doing it?

#107 NewRoxFan, Apr 23, 2019

mdrowe00 likes this.

NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

#108 NewRoxFan, Apr 23, 2019
JuanValdez Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 14, 1999

Messages:

34,118

Likes Received:

13,521

NewRoxFan said: ↑

And you can guess which justices voted which way. This ruling is such an obvious partisan vote by the USSC... and shame on those that will rule in favor of this. Read the whole thread... truly shameful.
Click to expand...

I think we have to wait for them to rule. You can't necessarily know how they'll decide from the questions they ask.

#109 JuanValdez, Apr 23, 2019
NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

JuanValdez said: ↑

I think we have to wait for them to rule. You can't necessarily know how they'll decide from the questions they ask.
Click to expand...

Not just questions they asked:

Roberts challenged New York Solicitor General Barbara Underwood, whose state sued the administration over the plan to add the question, saying citizenship is critical information for enforcing the Voting Rights Act. Roberts also said it is “quite common” for census questions to capture demographic information.
Click to expand...

Kavanaugh cited other countries that ask a citizenship question as part of their censuses. “It’s a very common question internationally,” Kavanaugh said.
Click to expand...

Gorsuch and fellow conservative Justice Samuel Alito both challenged evidence that asking about citizenship could cause census response rates to decline, as the challengers contend. Gorsuch noted that “it’s not like this question is improper to ask.”
Click to expand...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-trump-census-citizenship-query-idUSKCN1RZ0X9

#110 NewRoxFan, Apr 23, 2019
NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

Why this is important and how it will hurt democracy...

#111 NewRoxFan, Apr 23, 2019
NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

https://www2.census.gov/ces/wp/2018/CES-WP-18-38.pdf

#112 NewRoxFan, Apr 23, 2019
NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

Gorsuch Comments Preview Endgame If Citizenship Question Is Added To Census

If the citizenship question is allowed to stay on the census — and the conduct of conservative justices Tuesday suggests it will be — a case establishing whether the data could be used to cut noncitizens from the redistricting count would only be a matter of time. In fact, the organization that spearheaded the Evenwel case filed a friend-of-the-court brief that made plain that the question should stay on the census so states and localities could explore drawing districts based only on citizens. Gorsuch did not invoke Evenwel by name, but his question echoed language used in the friend-of-the-court brief by the Project on Fair Representation, which brought the Evenwel challenge. The Project on Fair Representation is led by conservative advocate Ed Blum, who was also behind the Supreme Court case that gutted the Voting Rights Act. Here’s a portion of the group’s brief on the current census case:
Click to expand...

Here’s how Gorsuch phrased his question, which was for New York Solicitor General Barbara Underwood, one of the lawyers representing those challenging the question: “As I understand it, some of the respondents and other people in litigation have complained when — when folks have relied on the ACS to extrapolate citizenship for purposes of redistricting and, in fact, argued that we should rely only on actual census data? And I understand respondents have made that argument in litigation. So what do we do with that?” Underwood pointed out that whatever complaints exist of ACS, the Census Bureau had presented Ross a proposal, before his official decision to add the question, to provide the citizenship data that would be more accurate than the ACS and more accurate even than asking that question directly on the short form census. That proposal would have the Census Bureau link various records from other agencies on citizenship with its own citizenship data.
Click to expand...

Judging by Gorsuch’s rhetoric Tuesday, conservative advocates like Blum could walk away from the hearing not only confident that the citizenship question should stay on the census, but that Gorsuch, Thomas and possibly Alito were in their camp for using it to exclude noncitizens from redistricting.
Click to expand...

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/go...me-if-citizenship-question-is-added-to-census

#113 NewRoxFan, Apr 24, 2019

NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

#114 NewRoxFan, Apr 24, 2019
NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

Congress will need to determine whether the U.S. Constitution set them as a co-equal branch of our government...

#115 NewRoxFan, Apr 24, 2019
cml750 Member

Joined:

Jun 14, 2002

Messages:

5,879

Likes Received:

3,508

NewRoxFan said: ↑

Congress will need to determine whether the U.S. Constitution set them as a co-equal branch of our government...

Click to expand...

That is the great irony of congressional oversight: Under current law, there is precious little that a house of Congress can do to put real force behind its oversight, because the administration’s own Justice Department, not Congress, is ultimately responsible for criminal prosecution of people who defy Congress’s oversight. And Democrats know this well, from recent history; if they’ve forgotten, they need only ask Eric Holder and Lois Lerner.
Click to expand...

https://thebulwark.com/ready-for-aggressive-house-oversight-not-so-fast-or-furious/

Note: I am not arguing one way or the other rather I am just pointing out what happened when Obama had people tagged with Contempt by Congress.

#116 cml750, Apr 24, 2019
tallanvor Contributing Member

Joined:

Oct 9, 2007

Messages:

17,059

Likes Received:

8,768

NewRoxFan said: ↑

Congress will need to determine whether the U.S. Constitution set them as a co-equal branch of our government...

Click to expand...

This is false like most things you post. Gore said he'd testify. AG Barr said he must have his lawyer present when he testifies. Cummings said Gore is not allowed to have his lawyer . Wonder why Cummings doesn't want gore to have a lawyer.. ....

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archi...ess-to-have-attorney-present-for-grilling.php

You are far and away the most misinformed poster. Why not do something about it? Get new sources.

#117 tallanvor, Apr 24, 2019

cml750 likes this.
Sacudido Contributing Member

Joined:

Jun 12, 2002

Messages:

242

Likes Received:

142

I think *any* sovereign country has the right to try to determine how many citizens and non-citizens reside in it. It is a simple question, and deserves to be asked. If people want to not answer, boycott, or whatever then go for it.

#118 Sacudido, Apr 25, 2019

Buck Turgidson Member

Joined:

Feb 14, 2002

Messages:

85,594

Likes Received:

83,939

Sacudido said: ↑

I think *any* sovereign country has the right to try to determine how many citizens and non-citizens reside in it. It is a simple question, and deserves to be asked. If people want to not answer, boycott, or whatever then go for it.
Click to expand...

The whole purpose of the census is to know about, like you just said, *everybody* in the country. This is vitally important for reasons of resource appropriation, voting district apportionment, etc.

You do realize that "non-citizen" encompasses a massive group of legal residents of varying status, right? You do realize that this is common and is good, yes? Why would you group citizen vs: other into a binary choice? There are better ways to acquire this data, this is just a blatant political move to motivate their base, or it's a craven move motivated by their worst impulses. Take your pick.

I don't see why there shouldn't be a huge push to educate the public on what the Census actually means, and the anonymity of it, and why it is important, and that they only have to answer the questions they want to. The main one is "how many people live there".

#119 Buck Turgidson, Apr 25, 2019
NewRoxFan Contributing Member

Joined:

Feb 22, 2002

Messages:

54,412

Likes Received:

54,311

tallanvor said: ↑

This is false like most things you post. Gore said he'd testify. AG Barr said he must have his lawyer present when he testifies. Cummings said Gore is not allowed to have his lawyer . Wonder why Cummings doesn't want gore to have a lawyer.. ....

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archi...ess-to-have-attorney-present-for-grilling.php

You are far and away the most misinformed poster. Why not do something about it? Get new sources.
Click to expand...

OK, here's a new source... donald trump.

President Donald Trump has made it clear he doesn’t want his subordinates to respond to congressional requests he dismisses as politically motivated. House Democrats say they are doing their constitutional duty to oversee the executive branch, ramping up investigations of Trump’s behavior, businesses and associates. “We’re fighting all the subpoenas,” Trump told reporters Wednesday. “I have been the most transparent president and administration in the history of our country so far.”
Click to expand...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-24/john-gore-house-oversight

And a few others, discussing congressional oversight...

Oversight is an implied rather than an enumerated power under the U.S. Constitution. The government ‘s charter does not explicitly grant Congress the authority to conduct inquiries or investigations of the executive, have access to records or materials held by the executive, or to issue subpoenas for documents or testimony from the executive. There was little discussion of the power to oversee, review, or investigate executive activity at the Constitutional Convention of 1787 or later in the Federalist Papers, which argued in favor of ratification of the Constitution. The lack of debate was based on the view that oversight and its attendant authority were inherent powers of representative assemblies, which enacted public law. Oversight also is derived from the many and varied express powers of the Congress in the Constitution. It is implied in the legislature ‘s authority, among other powers and duties, that it can appropriate funds, enact laws, raise and support armies, provide for a Navy, declare war, and impeach and remove from office the president, vice president, and other civil officers. Congress could not reasonably or responsibly exercise these powers without knowing what the executive was doing; how programs were being administered, by whom, and at what cost; and whether officials were obeying the law and complying with legislative intent.
Click to expand...

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/b...e/chapter/the-oversight-function-of-congress/

In the Federalist Papers, James Madison and Alexander Hamilton went on to further defend and operationalize a system of checks and balances, with each of our three branches of government having a degree of oversight. In Federalist #51, Madison noted that the “interior structure” of the government ensured that the different branches would “keep…each other in their proper places.”
Click to expand...

https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-b...onstitution-oversight-by-congress-is-critical

Congress’s power to investigate has deep roots in our political tradition, and the ability of Congress to investigate is embedded in our national charter, which gives Congress the power to legislate. As the Supreme Court has recognized, “[a] legislative body cannot legislate wisely or effectively in the absence of information respecting the conditions which the legislation is intended to affect or change; and where the legislative body does not itself possess the requisite information—which not infrequently is true—recourse must be had to others who do possess it.” Given its function, the congressional power to investigate is quite broad, “indeed co-extensive with the power to legislate.” Moreover, should the Executive Branch refuse to comply with congressional requests for information, Congress has tools available to enforce its oversight authority, including bringing a civil action in court against recalcitrant Executive Branch officials.
Click to expand...

https://www.theusconstitution.org/t...xercise-of-congressional-oversight-authority/

#120 NewRoxFan, Apr 25, 2019

(You must log in or sign up to post here.)

Page 6 of 8

Share This Page