These are relationships, and the side that hurts you in your sensitivities isn't always wrong. What Im really really pissed about is that the Rockets showed loyalty to Hakeem, and now he is acting totally and completely unprofessional. Whats even sicker about the whole thing is that in no way were the Rockets doing anything ethically or legally wrong by trying to trade Hakeem. However, Hakeem is trying to get himself off the Rockets and get them to pay his salary on another team when he is LEGALLY BOUND to them. You are the one being affected by "sensitivities" b/c you are completely blinded from seeing that what Hakeem is doing is completely wrong. Tell me this, and dont dodge this question. Is it right for an athlete to demand a trade or waiving when he is signed to a LEGALLY BINDING contract? Yes or no? ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
On the issue of the Rockets 'loyalty'. I'm at a loss. Because Dream supposedly demanded a contract extension and the trade fell through, then the Rockets were loyal to him? WTF? How does that work? me: Hey honey, I was thinking about a three way. her: Sure, if it's a guy. me: Hell no, I'm being loyal to you. WTF? How is that logical in your mind at all? Why all of the loaded questions, did I dodge one of your questions before M&M? Demanding a trade is entirely synonymous w/ a team trading a player. There's nothing wrong w/ either side performing what's best in their specific situation. Blah Blah Blah. ------------------ I keep plugging away, but I just can't get a 3 way to work on realwife.com
Achebe: Very logical post. Let's just say I like it a great deal more than the posts that seem to argue that the Rocket's should give in to Hakeem out of loyalty. However, I've still got to disagree. Shanna, in my opinion, really killed your argument. There ARE risks associated with long term contracts, for BOTH SIDES. Sure, it's easy to see the entire situation with immediacy, but you have to look at the larger context. Risks undertaken by the Rockets w/that contract: 1. injury, 2. dimnishing skills, 3. inability to sign young talent. Guess what? Most of those risks became a reality. Hakeem has NOT been the player they hoped over the past 5 years. Risks undertaken by Hakeem: 1. diminishing role, 2. trapped on a team that isn't winning. Looks like those two things have come true as well. Still, he signed a contract. He may have overestimated his own health or skills, his eyes may not have been open. But that doesn't mean that those risks couldn't have been anticipated. Every choice has the possibility of being a mistake. Hakeem decided that financial security was worth the risk... I'm sorry he's changed his mind after the fact, but Tough luck. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001. [This message has been edited by haven (edited February 01, 2001).]
Demanding a trade is entirely synonymous w/ a team trading a player. There's nothing wrong w/ either side performing what's best in their specific situation. Blah Blah Blah. How are they synonymous???? Does it say in the collective bargaining agreement that you can demand a trade if you dont like your team anymore? NO! Does it say that a team is allowed to trade players? YES IT DOES! Thus, what Hakeem is doing is WRONG WRONG WRONG. Your telling me your perfectly ok with players trying to wiggle out of their contracts? Im not, there needs to be a sense of decency here ESP when a team showed loyalty to you in the past. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Dream has politely asked... No he didn't. Nothing has happened so far... Yeah. That's because his contract's huge size far outweighs his playing ability. He can't be traded. so now Dream has upped the ante. So what? So now he suggests that Les pay him 8 million for him to play for the Heat. But, afer all, since there is no ought in this situation it doesn't matter. It's all relative. There is no agreement to abide to. Loyalty is relative. Because Dream is a great player he is above honoring a contract. Achebe, you're taking the 'stilted lovers' argument and ignoring all other statements. I'll cheer for him if (when) he's in a Heat uniform too. And if he's happy playing in Miami and contributes and gets to the Eastern finals or he Finals I'll be very happy for him. But that doesn't immunize him from criticizm for classless acts. Yes, it is okay that he wants out. Open your eyes. What he's doing isn't polite. It is not cool. ...And TheFreak, you are really reaching with the racist statement. Don't put so much effort into finding fault at all costs, you'll be far more believeable.
On the issue of the Rockets 'loyalty'. I'm at a loss. Because Dream supposedly demanded a contract extension and the trade fell through, then the Rockets were loyal to him? WTF? How does that work? The extension thing I used is to point out that Hakeem is not the complete angel he is being made out to be. The Rockets could still have tried to go through with the deal and called Hakeem's bluff but they did not. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
I don't want to bolt in the midst of an ongoing conversation... Nolen and haven both have persuasive arguments, but I gotta get up to la montagne. I'll chat w/ you guys later... or, brb. ------------------ I keep plugging away, but I just can't get a 3 way to work on realwife.com
Will, Agreed 100%. Personally, regardless of Achebe's opinion, I have nothing to be ashamed of - Hakeem has much to be ashamed of. Hakeem made a committment, and Les backed it up with $16M. Hakeem is acting totally spoiled and self-centered. He wants his money and everything else too, at the expense of his team's owner, coach, teammates, and fans. What a bunch of crap. I will always respect Hakeem for his achievements, which are most impressive. But these achievements are not a shield for selfish actions. ------------------ Cohen
Man, I thought this was a poem when I read the above paragraph. Make it all rhyme!!! That would get your point across AND fill our need for literary wit!! ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." [This message has been edited by HOOP-T (edited February 01, 2001).]
Will proves again why he might be the best poster ever around here. ------------------ Nadie En La Vida Es Eterno
I have seen where Freak reaches a little on the racial-PC issue, but I have to agree that is someone used 'Nigerian a##', this was intended as a slur and is inappropriate (I cannot even find the original quote). Rocket, 'Nigerian' by itself is not a slur. Combining it with deragatory words turns it into an intended slur. ------------------ Cohen
Great to see an incredible post like the one Will did while we are in the middle of all this pro-Hakeem nonsense. And to think some say I place god-like expectations on him, when THEY are the ones who are giving him the right to place himself above other men by being unwilling to fulfill his contract. ------------------ President of the Official Welcoming Committee for Shareef Abdur-Rahim!
Am I the only one surprised to hear those words coming from a liberal? Oops..I forgot...Where's that smilie symbol...oh...there you are... I don't think Achebe was saying Hakeem was an indentured servant. Just look at the next two sentences following the 'indentured servant' line: Dream makes your little fairy tale of a career w/ Houston book ends pretty? Do you want Dream to fulfill your little predefined roles for 4 or 5 shots a game on this lottery bound team? I think it's clear he's not saying anything about Hakeem being treated as a slave by the organization in this situation. He's referring to his 'relationship' with the fans.
Guys, let's not turn this thread into a racial discussion. If you want to do that, take it to the BBS Hangout. I'm going to end this by saying that what I said was in no way a racial slur(I never mentioned race) toward Hakeem or Nigerians, nor was it an ethnic slur. So all of your sensitive American a$$es need to relax. ------------------ "Clinton lied. A man might forget where he parks or where he lives, but he never forgets oral sex, no matter how bad it is." -- Barbara Bush
Don't venture into exaggerating our system here. We aren't run n gun. Most people would say we are boring and deliberate like New York. dribble, dribble, dribble. Go ahead Achebe, I dare you to start a thread titled "We are Running n Gunning Now!". If you want to bring up the system as a reason, at least get it right. And know, there is fundamentally no reason why a center can't play in this new system. Hakeem just didn't want to. He did not get squeezed out by the system. Who have you been reading? ZRB! lol! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 01, 2001).]
Dream is being manipulated by the media. Everything he says is misconstrued and taken out of context and it becomes the "fockal" point of all conversation. Stupid ass reporters need to quit harrassing Dream and get a life. I would rather talk about how Dream can help the team he is on NOW. So, Dream wants to go elsewhere. And I'm going to Disney World....so the ***** what. Surf ------------------
Dream is being manipulated by the media. Everything he says is misconstrued and taken out of context How do you know this? Why is *your* interpretation of what Hakeem said any more valid than the media's? And if the media keeps twisting what he's saying, why does he keep talking to the media? I would rather talk about how Dream can help the team he is on NOW. To some of us, his comments very clearly indicate that he's not interested in helping the team he is on now. He is more interested in finding a way, through the media or otherwise, to get out of Houston. . So, Dream wants to go elsewhere. And I'm going to Disney World....so the ***** what. So the problem is if you were being paid under contract to work in Houston right now, then you shouldn't be going to Disney World. Go to Disney World after you are done with your current obligations. ------------------ Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him? I didnt think so!!!!
Demanding a trade is entirely synonymous w/ a team trading a player. There's nothing wrong w/ either side performing what's best in their specific situation. No, actually it's not.... at least not when the contract both parties agreed to gives one party the right to execute trades and the other party an obligation to play wherever he is under contract to. Besides, do you not see a problem with a player trying to get the Rockets to pay him $8,000,000 to play for the Heat, simply because he changed his mind and no longer wants to play here? Wouldn't it be wonderful if I could get hired by one company, say "I don't like it here, so I'm going to go work for your competition, but you can keep paying me anyway so they can save money." I'm guessing that if Hakeem was willing to give up the $8,000,000 he is owed, the Rockets would be more than happy to release him. ------------------ Is it any coincidence that the Cato is the only Rocket with a temperature scale named after him? I didnt think so!!!!
