That doesn't change the fact they tanked. If you dig old news and articles, they were not afraid to admit that. Their fans even worried about more wins late in the season which would lower their chance to get Lebron. Changes from 01-02 to 02 - 03 A.Miller left. Z was finally healthy and played a full season(62 in 01) (STAT: 11.2/5.1 -> 17.2/7.5) Added Boozer(10/7.5 in 02, and become a monster in the 2nd half) Added Wagner(one of the ROY candidates early season) Changes from 02-03 to 03-04 Added Lebron Boozer continued his strong performance and improved They still sucked early until the trade for McInnis Fact, a line-up of healthy Z - Boozer - Lebron + ... was better than a few playoff teams in the East.
If you say Cleveland had enough talent for the playoffs, than every team in the NBA had enough talent for the playoffs. This time last year who had the Cavs one win away from the playoffs? The guy reaches and exceeds all of his individual expectations, his team reaches and exceeds all of their expectations, and now people want to get on him because he didn't do the unbelievable in taking the Cavs to the playoffs? Puh-leeze! As for comparing him to Jordan, WHY? What's the point in any of those comparisons? What's so bad about an 18 year old not playing as good as Jordan played? What's so bad about ANYONE not playing as good as Jordan played? I wish one day people would stop comparing guys with Jordan, especially the guys he never played against.
you agree with him? But you said Lebron was a dima a dozen? but he said: "Lebron is a great great talent. and he will surely be one of the greats in the game for a long time" that doesn't sound like a dime a dozen
Lets just say they did tank that season, what if they didn't? How many more games do they win? 4? 5? I don't know, it would still be a horrible team though. Wagner sucked. Ok... So Lebron started the season with the EXACT same team that won 17 games the prior season, I guess he was supposed to take (one of) the worst team in the NBA to the playoffs to prove he was worthy of the hype. Like I said he and his team reached and exceeded all expectations made prior to the season, now people act like he and his team were supposed to better.
You just simply do not understand my point. As I stated earlier, LJ is good, just not what media hyped him up to be. Do you remember people thought he was MJ II? He's never gonna be Micheal. and He's currently not a top 10 player as some of you believe he is. Yes, It's a fact that talents like LJ come around all the time, much more so than a talented big man like Shaq, KG and TD.
Healthy Mcnis = Cavs make the playoff last year. Kind like how the Rox missed the playoff in Yao's rookie year because of Rudy's absence. And I certainly believe we were better than Phoenix and Jazz that year.
Lebron James is an exellent talent. He is a beast physically, one of the most athletic players in the league. He is also an above average passer. With that said, I am one of the people who are reluctant to ride on his royal jock. He is a terrible shooter, and below average scorer. If he could somehow raise his FG% to 46+ and 3PT% to 35+, I would have a completely different opinion of him. And by all means he very well may. But getting better at shooting is not as easy as just practicing. Karl Malone did it, and I'm sure there are others, but then again some just never become good shooters. Sura has terrific form, much like Lebron, but he is a career 31% 3PT shooter. Lebron played 40 minutes last year and scored 20 points, on .417 FG%, which does not impress me. Basketball is not all about scoring, but certainly part of it is, and Lebron is below average at it. Especially since he is already one of the most athletic players, one of the best dunkers, you would think his FG% would be higher. Now I know, the first reponse some will have is, "He was ONLY 19!" But thats the only thing going for him. If he was a 19 year old, 6-8, 198 pound, same athletically as now, and had the same stats as now, I would be estatic. That means he has so much more to develope physically so his potential is off the charts. However, in real life he is already as physically developed as he will ever be, and he is playing as many minutes as he will probably ever play. So the ONLY thing he can improve upon is experience. How much that translates to in highly opinionated. Personally, I would argue not very much. But of course no one really knows. Its a shame that everytime someone mentions 18 year old they think Garnett, Kobe, Tracy, JO. These kids came in to the league as twigs, who saw little to no playing time. Lebron is NOT in the same situation. If Lebron doesn't drastically improve his shooting, he may not be a dime a dozen, but there would be about a dozen guards I would consider trading him for. Tmac Kobe Vince(of 2 years ago) Grant Hill(healthy) Paul Pierce Ron Artest Carmelo Anthony Anfernee Haraway(8 years ago) Peja AK-47 These are about the same type of players as Lebron. 6-7, 6-8 G-F who does it all. Every one of those above with the exception of Carmelo is better than todays Lebron. AI(of 2 years ago) Jason Kidd(healthy) Marbury + ( ) Francis + ( ) Magette + ( ) Michael Redd + ( ) Baron Davis + ( ) These are some that are more PG-SG. Some are slightly below but if you add a filler they are comparable to Lebron. And those are only guards I'm talking about. Obviously Lebron will improve with more experience. My point is, not too drastically. He already shoots 19 times a game, if he were to increase his PPG to 25+ but shoot the same percentages he is now, it would be detrimental to his own team. So if he is to become a top scorer, he NEEDS to become a better shooter. Once again, if he one day becomes a jumper shooter in the class of Kobe, Tmac etc., I will have a different opinion. As of right now, "a dime a dozen" isn't that far off.
ok jamison is a good player but number 32? ahead of 33. Tony Parker -- 34. Sam Cassell -- 35. Michael Redd -- 38. Jamaal Magloire -- 39. Manu Ginobili -- 40. Steve Nash 41. Richard Jefferson 42. LeBron James -- 43. Carmelo Anthony -- 45. Dwyane Wade -- no way
i do not think he is a top 10 player. But the thing that makes Lebron so special is the fact that he is so Young. There has never been a player in the nba so young and already so good. nobody knows if he will be one of the best ever, or if he wil fail. But at this moment things are looking very good for him. Ofcourse he has to improve alot of things. But he is so young he will have time for that. i think he wil be a very scary player. I do not like the jordan compairisment. Like i already said i do not believe in compairing current players with Legends. I Also do not care what the Media Writes or says. I think Lebron will be a very good player. But Only time wil tell.
They won 17 games before Lebron James and won 35 games with Lebron James. They fell one game shy of the 8th seed. You're being ridiculous. There aren't many veteran stars in the league that can have that huge an impact on a team. If they started the season with the roster they ended it with I think they'd have easily won 40 games. That would have made them the 7th seed. 41 games would have made them tied for 5th. I don't know what you've got against Lebron, but his impact on the game was close to the level of MJ, Magic and Bird. All that from a kid straight out of highschool under the kind of pressure YOU can never fathom. Get off it. (edit: I should have specified that his impact on the game was close to the level of MJ, Magic and Bird in their rookie campaigns. I'd obviously be an idiot to say it was anywhere near the level of their primes)
There is a reason Kobe and T-Mac didn't see much time in the league their rookie seasons. They weren't ready. So to use his playing time against him is the most ridiculous argument in this thread. This guy at 19 put up some of THE BEST all around stats in the NBA. No high schooler has come in and done that. Outside of his shooting percentage, he does everything well. And I don't see why anyone would think he can't get better. His game is still very raw. To call him just an average passer is also ridiculous. He's already one of the best passers in the league as evidenced by his statistics and from watching I would say one of the best 5 passers on the fast break. Watching the Olympics he was the only player to get easy shots for Tim Duncan. He's not selfish. He's already more athletic than 90% of all guards in the NBA. And yes, HE'S ONLY 19.
Exactly. Kobe and Tmac weren't ready. Like I said they were twigs. Lebron is a fully developed manchild, there is no room for improvement physically. Or playing time for that matter. Which is my point. I am tired of this High Schooler arguement. There is a reason why no high schooler has every done the things Lebron has. Because no high schooler has been as physically developed. That just means he has less potential to improve than most high schoolers. The only good thing that comes out of that is, of the first 2 years normal high schoolers are developing physically, Lebron can be out their playing. So he gets 2 years more of experience. How much does that translate to?? Who knows. If he can some how learn to shoot, then yes, I will reserve a spot on his jock. Also, If you actually read my post, I said ABOVE average passer. And that is exactly what he is. He averaged 5.9 assists, which is less than Francis. He is 15th in the league. What statistics are you looking at? Remember, just because you look to the left when you pass to the right does NOT make you a great passer. Thats style, not skill. But yes, "ABOVE average passer". I agree completely that he is more athletic than 90% or the guards. So is Desmond Mason. Darius Miles.
Can I say McInnis was the most impact player of last year's Cavs? They sucked before the McInnis trade and missed the playoff after his injury. His impact was the same as MJ, Magic and Bird (if lebron's was close to MJ). Should I repeat it? They were not 17-wins bad in 02 - 03 but tanked to get Lebron.
Look, your post is full of "could have", "should have". If you think LJ is that good, then why does he still need a healthy McGinnis then? A 35-47 team in the EAST is a very BAD team no matter how you want to twist it. and please stop hallucinating if you think LJ had as much of a impact as Bird, MJ or Magic, even in their rookie years.
so basicall you are saying: if a child is very tall it means that he cannot grow as much more as a small child
The truth is Lebron is somewhere between 'a dime a dozen' and 'the second coming of MJ'. Case closed. Now let's get back to the topic and talk about whether our own Yao and T-mac deserve to be in the top ten.
So is Tracy a terrible shooter too? He shot worse than Lebron did last season. If he shot as much as Tracy he would of led the league in scoring, just because he didn't shoot that much makes him a below average scorer? If 20 is below average, than what is the average? Those numbers that you're asking him to reach, well, who does that now a days? Who does that and averages more than 20 per game? I know Kobe or AI have never done that, Tracy probably hasn't, Vince, Ray Allen, Peja, Dirk have but right there are the best shooters in the NBA, not the best scorers. He could still be growing, wasn't it Lebron who was said to have grown a couple of inches during the Olympics? Even if it wasn't him, I think most males stop growing at 21. Eliminate Hill and Hardaway right now, both will never be as good as they were before. The only guy on that list you trade Lebron for is Bryant, and that's if the Lakers promise to trade him back in a couple of years once he's as good as Bryant. Lebron is or will be better than everyone else on that list… Besides the Cavs wouldn’t even think of trading him for any of the guys on both of your lists. How would you know that? Bryant, Tracy, KG, Jermaine O'neal, and plenty of other players all improved drastically, why do you think Lebron won't? AI shot about that same percentage during his MVP season, and he wasn't detrimental to his own team. The NBA wouldn't be in as bad a shape as it is now if he really was "a dime a dozen."
Kobe and Tracy weren't as good as Lebron was, forget how he looks, Lebron was a much better player as a Junior than Kobe and Tracy were as rookies! As far as playing time goes, well you always play your best players, Lebron was and would of been one for almost every team in the league, Kobe and Tracy weren't and that's why they didn't play. Amare? Moses Malone? The reason no one did what he did as a rookie was because no one was as good as he was, lets not even talk about how far advanced he is in terms of understanding the game, which is probably ahead of most of the people we've talked about. Who cares about the number of assists he averaged, or the number of turnovers, none of that really matters when you're talking about how good of a passer he is. Jason Kidd is probably the only guy in the NBA who has better vision than he does, better anticipation of where his teammates will be, and I can't think of many player who can make the passes he made, certainly nobody on the Olympic team passed as well as he did.
So what? You take away Jim Jackson and we don't make the playoffs either, doesn't make him Yao in terms of impact. How many games do you think a Ricky Davis led team wins if they're not tanking anything?
Exactly. Some people improved a lot after they physically developed, Most people improve their stats after they get more minutes. Lebron had both in his rookie season already. He's a wonderful talent, deserves top 25 consideration, but I don't know if his potential is as high as some people think, unless he's as mentally tough as Michael Jordan. I'll just wait and see. BTW, I still believe Boozer had a bigger impact than LBJ last season, in fact according to one article that was one of the reason Boozer left Cavs, he personally didn't like the fact LBJ took all the credits.
