Nope. It's a quality over quantity league. Your "5 future first round picks" case is worthless without context. That's exactly the same BS that ESPN paraded to try and delude folks into believing the Brooklyn offer wasn't complete junk. Orlando didn't buy it. The Toronto pick, by itself, might be more valuable than a package of five from Cleveland. Jeremy Lamb, by himself, is more valuable than any combination of currently available prospects from Cleveland. (Waiters, at best, might make it a draw, if he becomes available later this summer.) Kevin Martin, as an expiring contract and legitimate scorer, is more valuable than Anderson Varejao on a rich two-year deal as the veteran centerpiece. The strength of the Cleveland offer is in its "depth". In the NBA, that usually means a sucker deal. I don't think Rob Hennigan is a sucker.
2 Cavs unprotected 1st rounders, could be worth a ton, since Bynum will be a Free Agent, has had a couple of knee surgeries, and this is Cleveland. Cleveland also has a Sacramento 1st round pick (top 10 protected), which isn't that much less valuable than the Toronto pick. Sure, they've got 2 Heat picks which aren't worth much, but that is 2 extra picks beyond us. They have Tristan Thompson, Tyler Zeller, Dion Waiters (He didn't go 8 spots higher than Lamb for no reason), and have more cap space. Varejao being in the deal, would be a joke and I don't believe the ESPN report because of it, but they have basically what we have, plus 2 extra 1st rounders. The Rockets have a probable lotto pick from Toronto, but looks to be in the back half of the lottery. The Rockets have a 1st rounder that will either be in the last 10 picks of the 1st round, or take 5 years to realize, and then they have their 2015 pick, which isn't better than a 2015 pick from Cleveland. Edit: I suppose if we were willing to give up DMo/Jones/Lamb/White/3 1st rounders, and you weren't high on Waiters/Thompson/Zeller, that would be a different story. That though would depend on a team's player evaluations.
Like I said, I don't believe the Cavs are really interested, but they have that available. And don't say nobody. LAC ended up trading the #1 pick in the draft just to get out of Baron Davis' contract. Never underestimate how stupid a team can be.
It's extremely well documented that Cleveland is not doing this deal without an extension from Bynum. If Bynum isn't sticking around, there's no deal. http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2012/07/andrew_bynum_to_cavaliers_trad.html As far as the Sacramento pick nearly as valuable as Toronto - please. For starters, the Kings have won 17, 25, 24 and 22 games in the past four seasons. If they don't get out of the top 10 by 2016 - and it's extremely possible - it's a second-round pick. If they do, the pick is 11 or later. There's no upside. Toronto, on the other hand? They've missed the playoffs for four straight seasons. Winning percentages of .268 and .348 the last two years. Offseason upgrades of Lowry over Calderon and an unproven rookie C and SG appear minimal. Other teams with worse records this past year (New Jersey, Golden State, New Orleans, arguably Cleveland) appear to have made much more substantial additions and are likely to jump Toronto. Is it a done deal that the Toronto pick is mid-lotto or better? Of course not. But it easily can be. The upside is there. There isn't any with the Kings pick or others from Cleveland. Expiring contracts aren't created equal, either. Martin is still a 20 points/game scorer and could easily be flipped at the deadline for a late first or two from a contender, thereby equaling the Heat picks. The Luke Walton-esque junk from Cleveland? Not so much. That's like saying Hasheem Thabeet has high trade value because he went No. 2 overall. Waiters was considered an extreme reach at 4. The Cavs were mocked around the league. At least 50% of the draft boards I saw had Lamb higher. Lamb was the better player in college and is outplaying Waiters this summer. That said, all it takes is one idiot to like you and you can go No. 1 overall. That's the beauty of the draft. That does not, however, indicate a league-wide opinion of your value.
Look I want Bynum and DH but only at the right price. Now we have Linsanity Les Alexander and the casual fans aren't that pressured to put out a winning product, Linsanity will do the marketing and generate enough hype to get fans to buy tickets. Courtwise we probably don't need a center anymore, PPat can play C, Dmo can as well and if the Bulls don't match (highly likely) then we have one of the best defensive big men in the league as our starter. We have capspace, tons of potential and marketing power. Seriously, Morey better lowball that offer, we don't need to buy what they're selling. BTW LOL @ the "package" the Cavs brining out. Busts Tristan Thompson and DIon Walters, solid rookie center, several low first rounders and a couple of 2nd round picks. Kmart's expiring, Ppat, 2 Dallas 2nd rounders, Tony Douglas, Toronto Lottery pick, Leuer or another NYC 7 footer and maybe White or Jones beats that package easily.
The Cavs aren't trading two unprotected first rounders and more for Bynum. They aren't stupid. The Magic don't want Varejao's crap contract, which is almost as much as Davis and Duhon combined. That's as ridiculous as Marc Stein saying Haywood's contract was a great trade chip because of a stretch provision.
Dude don't listen to Dreamshake1. That guy never bothers to read anything and just posts whatever's on his big fat mouth. He spent several days talking about how the Rox would be in cap hell since they'd be paying 15M each to Asik and Lin, then said those signings were stupid since we can't trade for DH. Now he's saying Scola's the missing piece to get Bynum. Right, 30 year old PF making 9M a year for next 3 years is the deal breaker for Bynum.
It's laughable that ESPN and the Lakers sources are saying the "facilitating" pieces are Anderson Side Show Bob Varejao and three future first round picks... If this is what The Magic have been holding out for... Rob Hennigan will surpass Ed Wade and Michael Jordan as easily the most incompetent GM in the History of sports...
The deal also supposedly hinges on extensions from Dwight AND Bynum?? There is a better chance the Astros win the World Series this year
Expirings period can be flipped for 1st rounders at the deadline. That has been proven. Doesn't matter what they are and unless you are trading them for more expirings, good chance Orlando doesn't care. Remember that Martin would actually help the team win games, and lessen their chances for the top pick. Bynum isn't agreeing to an extension period. This is about what they can offer, not what is actually happening (If you'd read all of my posts, you'd know I don't believe the report of the Cavs actually offering this). Those 2 Cleveland picks would have very high upside. The Kings pick does have extreme risk, which is why it is less valuable, but what you are most likely to get from either is about the same. Hasheem Thabeet has been around long enough to know what he is. If Memphis wanted to trade him on day 1, they could have gotten back high value. Same with Waiters. This isn't about what I think is happening, it is about what they can offer, and their package is about the same as ours, unless the team values our young guys strongly over theirs, which is always possible.
This. If the past couple years have really proven anything, it's that these guys are just propaganda machines for both sports teams and agencies alike. They cater to the big market teams because they make the most money when their fans tune in for the latest fabricated news. A high placed source told me this on the condition that he remain anonymous.
Stop viewing the players as were they were drafted...but instead think of their potential Hennigan...your indecision is getting to be as bad as Dwightmare...
No. Random expirings can be flipped for first rounders if you're willing to take on long-term salary. That's not what Orlando is trying to do. Quality DOES matter if you're trying to trade them for other expirings and a pick, which would be the scenario for Orlando/Martin here. No worries, then. If Bynum isn't agreeing to an extension, the Cavs aren't doing this deal. Yes, but the upside that's there in the Toronto pick (and isn't in the Sacramento one) makes a lot of difference. Will it take some luck to fully realize it? Could the end result be similar to the Sacramento pick? Of course. But it's the exact type of high-upside risk that rebuilding teams like to take. No, they couldn't. Let's use a more recent example. Derrick Williams has been around for one lockout-shortened season, and folks around the league laughed at Minnesota when they offered him for Charlotte's No. 2 in this draft. After the draft, no one really cares what number you were picked. The selection order is a highly arbitrary event full of busts and misses every year. Everything comes down to the eye of the beholder, and I don't see a lot to tell me that Waiters is a more valuable chip than Lamb. The Houston package has significantly more blue-chip upside, period, led by that Toronto pick. The Cleveland package has more depth to it. I have a suspicion which one Hennigan prefers.
Like I said, unless they are getting back expirings they aren't dealing their expirings anyway. They won't find more value for Martin (12M in expirings aren't on most team's books, plus looking for a SG, plus willing to give up a pick). If they could get that, Martin wouldn't be a Rocket any more. The Magic are tanking, they'd be happy with trash and losing more games. I'm not arguing Tristan Thompson's draft position am I? That would be the equivalent of Derrick Williams, not a guy that has yet to step foot in the NBA. Neither of us work for the Magic, we don't know who prefers who, but I've said as much. A lot of people had Waiters over Lamb. As far NBA goes, we know the Cavs felt strongly enough to draft Waiters there, when they obviously could have traded back to 12 if the felt he would still be there. Doesn't mean they were right (they took TT over JV last year), but you can't dismiss how many teams could have drafted Lamb, but didn't. The Toronto Pick does have the high upside, but it is still most likely going to fall around 10-14. To me, nothing would be more valuable than an unprotected Cleveland pick, of which they could offer 2 of.
