cat's past 27 games...it's more than a hot streak.

crispee-You are aware they moved it back right?

 

In the 80's, the three point line was still considered a new innovation to basketball, and was used only by guys that knew how to shoot (Larry Bird, Byron Scott, etc). Now, almost everyone except centers jacks up three pointers at will.

Back in 1983, Detroit beat Denver 186-184 in the highest scoring game in NBA history. I'm not sure of the exact number, but I know that the two teams combined for less than ten three point attempts...in a triple overtime game! Ten three point attempts for one person isn't too uncommon in a modern NBA game. Every major individual and team record for three pointers made was set in the past ten years. I'd be willing to bet that there is a direct correlation between the increase in three point attempts and the decrease in FG%.

 

His shot has improved significantly.....it's very, very pure......he's rarely even hitting rim with his shots.

I'm impressed.


What caused such an improvement?

He finally adapted to the new rules. What was hindering him, aside from the ankle injury, was his inability to recognize that the help defense only had to slide over from weak to strong side to stop his drives. Last year, he was the creator of great spacing for this team as the help defense would come from the top.

He finally realized this, shies away from the help defender by going baseline with his drives, and is quickly becoming automatic when open.

I still don't want him in passing situations. He's just not a good passer. It's not natural to him, and thus, we see the ankle high bounce passes off of screens to big men. That's fine though. He's better suited to be an offensive cog anyways.

Next year's team...

Mo Taylor is going to create great spacing for this team next season. That, his ability to spread a team out, was probably the one thing he wasn't appreciated enough for.

The major difference will be that Mobley will take Shandon's spot in the weakside corner and just kill teams off of perimeter passing.

I'm not sure he'll be able to maintain such a high scoring average with more weapons on the team, but I have no doubts that he'll be a more effective player on that end as a result.

They're going to be a potent offensive team next season....now if that foreign concept known as defense could only infiltrate this team......then we might have a contender on our hands.

 

Even as hot as Mobley has been in the past few months, I still don't think he's comparable to Bryant. Kobe gets twice as many boards and nearly 3 teams the assists. This is not to mention the fact that Kobe is an excellent one-on-one defender and Cat is, for lack of a better word, sucky at it.

Still, he's and Steve are the leaders of this team and will be into the future. Not everyone can be Kobe or Shaq, but Cat is nonetheless an All Star caliber scorer (once again, his D needs work and with his height I don't think he'll ever be a good rebounder....he should still be a better passer than he is though which is what he should work on in the offseason). He's a hard worker and I'm sure he'll continue to improve in the offseasons ahead.

 

TPL, you talk as if Maurice is going to step right in at the four. Where do KT and EG and Rice and Torres fit in? This all gets really interesting if everyone is back healthy next year.

 

Woofer,

I think Kenny has earned the right to start next year with his play this season....but there's about 48 million reasons why Mo Taylor will get the nod.

Don't underestimate the influence of politics. It's why Glen Rice will start, despite proving nothing in his short stay here.

Kenny's ideal position was always main option on the second team anyways, and he'll still get his minutes, as will Griffin. This season has shown, if anything, that they have chemisty while on the floor together. Having two players of their ability coming off the bench will not only shore up the paucity of bench production we've seen, but will allow both to be featured in the offense.....which gives Griffin ample opportunity to improve his post up game, among other things.

 

yes....merely helping a fellow poster point out that many people attribute drastic jumps in 3-pt shooting and reduction of FG% to the precedence set in the 90's that combined shooting over Pat Riley's clogged lane and the shortened 3ptr. Moving it back hasn't stopped that trend.

tpl,

good read. i don't quite get the part about last year the help D on Cuttino coming from the top versus the PF (at the weak-side elbow) or the C (on the baseline); are you talking about 2-Shakes??? Or are you talking about 24 High when the PF would trap him like they do Francis. But yes, I do agree that the adjustment is a combination of needing to play against more zones and shooting with a more controlled jump. he collects both feet underneath him better now when he jumps...whether jumping straight up or straight back.

As we know from Rudy comments, he is starting the ISO closer to the basket at about 3-5' straight above the elbow maybe a shade toward the mid-wing area. He still gets the pnr called, but this ISO positioning prevents the help, because he has passing options weakside and strongside, not to say he uses them a lot, but the defense still must play him more honestly now. Rudy started this in the tail end of the losing streak, when they finally got a practice to implement new plays. Took Cat about 2 weeks to get fully used to all the different ways to use that new angle of attack.

Now where are we: 27 games is a long time. Plenty of time for defenses to adjust. I don't see any successful adjustments, yet. Maybe because no one cares about defending the Rockets. But, it's like if you don't have McGrady or Garnett at the FT line to screw with him with their length/speed, the Kirilenkos aren't going to get it done, and it all becomes a matter of Cat and the rim...a world of concentration and tunnel-vision focus. swiissh

Did you see Stockton b**** out Kirilenko for not standing at the far elbow to prevent Cat from going down the heart of the lane. Cat just took it right down the middle to the rim. Then after Stockton's tutoring, Cat took it to the FT line again but Kirilenko blocked access the lane so Cat does a cool, smooth jump back and pop. He'll also fake a drive and do a step back to gain separation.

I think the classic example of how he has improved is that the step/jump back behind the FT line is becoming money...and the move baseline for the jump back J is not fading baseline anymore. He's collecting his feet for a jumb and going straight back. It's almost like someone told him he had too many XYZ coordinate calculations on his previous jumper...where he'd jump back and fade left or right, like the two last sec shots against Sprewell and Al Harrington. Now his body on that jaw-dropping baseline jumper when he drives right is not continuing to fade to the right while shooting. I've got a great view of that shot when he launches it from in front of the opps bench. very smooth.

<b>and a Funny thing happened to me the way to the Forum ...</b>

...I f.i.n.a.l.l.y. have proof on tape that a defender did actually clip Cat on the elbow once...for real. I always wrote that off as Cat complaining to the refs...you know how he gives the whine sign where he holds his arm in shooting position to the refs and clips his elbow with his right hand. Well, I finally actually saw one. It was an airball, and his elbow clearly got messed with.

 

Cuttino whobee whatee??????

Bench him now for the good of the team and this board

Well, only if he had 1-2 more assists per game
Well, only if he could take 5 less shots
Well, only if he could not take wild shots
Well, only if he would not take the final shot of the game
Well, only if he would not dribble into double teams


This is a 5 mil guy playing like a 7-8 mil player....anyone else up to this task on this team?

 

I have always been a big supporter of cuttino, but early in the year, I though his improvement over each season stopped with this season (or peaked, I should say),..but damnation if it isn't apparent "cat" is getting better and better! I love it!

 

1FRACHISE 2CAT 3RICE 4Griffin 5Mo T/Cato

The starting lineup of the 2003 NBA champs

 

crispee,

Last year's help defense is different in that it was direct and came from the top, leading to conventional perimeter swing passing. This year, as a result of the fact that teams can position their big man, or what would have been their weakside help, on the strong side, the middle has been all but taken away. He still has the ability to hit that jumper in the middle at a high clip, but it's not there with the same frequency.

I still think he's best utilized in a motion-oriented offense, like we see with the weakside down screens for Walt, and the high swing around screen used with Shandon last season. His ISO ability, in the long run, is going to be a luxury to be exploited when a mismatch presents itself. In other words, a lot of the current sets we see him in will become less and less the norm in the following seasons. His talent can be focused in a much more effective manner with added frontcourt weapons.

On his shot again- it seems like he's done a complete 180 with the form of his shot. He used to get unneccisarily high on his jumpshot, which was a stark contrast to his flat footed/low elevation 3 point shot. He's become more consistent with his form these past 27 games, and it's made all the difference in the world.

Again....on his improvement

Let's not downplay how vital Francis' presence is to his success though. Mobley is NOT a player who is going to pick apart a team who overplays him with his passing, and needs a player like Francis to divert defensive pressure from him. Only then can he maximize his talents on the offensive end. An Andre "Big Brevin" Miller type player wouldn't have the same effect on Mobley's game!

That, moreso than any ankle injury that may have been hampering him, along with his new found recognition of how defenses are playing him, are the sources of his success.

 

I have also been impressed with Cat's play of late. I know that I have come across as a critic of his, but it's because his potential is so great and his ceiling is so high.

So, I will give him his props for his play and I'll give crispee props for seeing earlier than most (at least from what I have seen here) that potential in Mobley.

Granted, I'm still concerned about his basketball decisions, and he *looks* like the type of player with an inflated ego about himself. Experiencing this success could only make that worse. However, I could be seeing something that is really not there.

It's too bad that the Rockets have had such a crappy season or Mobley would be getting so much more press and hype. Are his numbers of late MVP numbers? Sure they are, but unfortunately, guys who play on teams that are like 15 games under .500 don't get the MVP.

But I think that Mobley has definitely taken huge strides in these last 20 or so games. I just want to see if he can maintain this level of play. But I have a good feeling about it, though.

 

If you're talking about an immediate double team, then I can remember that....the entire defense shifts and leaves Shandon wide open...lol. If you talking about help waiting for Cat to start his drive, that came from the weakside elbow (if he goes to the middle) or the Center on the baseline (if he took the baseline route); remember all the dishes to Cato for slams that Cat would get. They always stayed at bay with guarding Francis at the top of the key. That's why we placed Francis there, so they couldn't drop down from the Top on help d without exposing Steve. Even still, some early doubles came from the PF and Kenny would cut into the lane...remember those??

In a zone world, they are placing guys at the weakside elbow to begin with, or pull them over to the strongside, low post....like you pointed out. The new entry point to Mobley is designed to get him to his seams quicker, despite these positionings. He doesn't get to the rim as much....but boy, he can still do it at a clip that most guys can't. unbelievable. Stand a foot too far like Kirilenko did, and Mobe's second stride is inside that seam.

As for help defense on the pnr last year, they would trap Mobes, leaving our PF and send someone across the lane to pick up the unguarded PF on the wing.

As for the middle being taken away. It has been taken away from Francis for sure, unless he gets an entry there. For Mobley, it was taken away until Rudy made the adjustment in mid-December. When he gave Mobley the more close-in Entry position, Cat is now basically one or two dribbles from the free throw line. They can take that drive down the lane away (like Stockton was telling Kirilenko to do), but Cat is getting in the FT circle at will for that jumper, imo, especially on the pnr.

Using double picks and all that to free Mobley are fine, and probably a matter of opinion...hell, they sure work for Latrell and Rip Hamilton. But they are equally disruptive to ball movement as an ISO. They take too long to develop, and need the coordination of 4 players just for one quick jumper that Mobley can get on this new ISO in less time required.

If we want to change how we use Mobley, I wouldn't point to giving him other Rocket's plays, I would put to other teams' plays. Like Sacramento. But switching systems like that boils down to the improvement of Stevie and the whole team. I'm down with that totally, but just don't think giving Mobley Walt's or Shandon's plays makes a whole helluva lot of difference.

indeed,

Further, downplaying the positive effect of the mere presence of Francis on the court is the same as downplaying the negative effect of the mere presence of Mrs Torrence or Shandn on the court.

btw: until Francis learns how to run the offenses we love, we can't really say we want more motion-oriented offense to make use of Cat and in a later sentence say that Andre Miller wouldn't have the same positive effect on Cat as Francis does.

You are absolutely right on both counts, imo. Francis is a key to playing honest D on Cat, and motion-oriented offense can get Mobley easier shots . . . but I don't expect such an offense until Francis learns to love to run one like Andre Miller....it is up to the PG, by and large, or you need those great passing big men like Divac/Webber at Sacromento.

As much as I hate to say it, I wouldn't hold my breath on Maurice and the improvement of Griffin to land us a new system. About as positive as I can get is us just making quicker team decisions and quicker sets like Dallas and Milwaukee. Still, you have to get Terrence off the floor to do that....didn't you say that in another thread last weekend. spot on TPL!!!!

 

This is a fantastic observation. I watched for this during the game-and it was right on. He faded to the side a couple times, and missed. Then, on seemingly the same type of "difficult" (according to Worrell) shot, he went straight back, or straight up, and it went through cleanly. He shot 9-15 for 60% tonight. I thought tonight he clearly outplayed all-star Wally Alphabet Soup.

MVP numbers? I don't think so. I don't think Kobe is the MVP, and he has a large rebound and assist gap. But those are perennial all-star type numbers.

verse-as you said, his assist numbers are average. Not below average, but not above average.

Here is player X, 26 years old, born within 2 months of Cuttino. This player has made 3 all-star games, appeared in the Olympics, and is the leading scorer on a playoff bound team, and is considered one of the best shooters in the game.

Player X, Season
22.1 PPG
4.7 RPG
4.1 APG
1.36 SPG
2.32 TO PG
46.4% FG%
43.7% 3P%

Cuttino Mobley, last 27 before tonight vs. Minn. (from verse)
25.2 PPG
3.8 RPG
2.2 APG
1.48 SPG
2.4 TO PG
47% FG%
41.7% 3P%

FG% and 3P%, TO, and SPG are virtually even. Less than a rebound separate. The main difference is Cuttino scores 3 more PPG, and gets 2 less APG.

Player X is "He Got Game" Ray Allen.

 

The one part of his game i don't like is that, not only are his assist numbers low, he doesn't pass the ball very often...

To the opposing team, cuttino is a black hole, when he has the ball you can bank on him taking the shot.

It's to his credit that he is scoring so well with defenses knowing this tendency. I honestly believe if he passed the ball more, he'd score more points and get easier shots.

It's really not that he takes "wild shots" but that he seems to settle for them instead of moving the ball to get the best shot

 

mvp #'s? Compared to who? Where were you when Steve had a higher fg% then Cat his first 3 years in the league? Heck, as much as you b**** about Steve's TO's, over Cat's mvp run, Cat has more TO's than assists !?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?! 3.8 rpg? Those are mvp #'s? Do you mean mvp for the league? ****, Steve averages 7 rpg. We should hand him the player of the century award for that.

I love Cuttino (I named my cat after him), and think he is a very effective player, but, an mvp means we can win with just him. Obviously, that is not the truth. We need Steve to win.

 

Crispee:

It was as recent as this season that I lashed into Mobley, criticizing his decision making and shot selection. I have been agape at his improvement during the course of this season.

Following the 1998 season, it was pretty safe to assume that Michael Dickerson would soon greatly surpass Cuttino in player production. In Mobley, I felt we had a player much too small too play the shooting guard and lacking the ballhandling ability necessary to play pg. He wasn't gifted with blinding speed like Dickerson, didn't have abnormal leaping ability, and didn't seem to have much offensive ability. All he boasted was desire and an incredible first step to the basket. He'd make a good player in this league but never a starter on a championship team. Judging by his production in relation to this athletic ability, he had for the most part maxed his potential at 10ppg.

Over the course of his 2nd and 3rd seasons (and halfway into this year), as we all know took his game to another level. He became a creator and his improvement was remarkable. Still, I felt he would always be just a good starter - never anything speical. He would never make an All-Star team. He was much too small, made too many bad decisions, and just wasn't an efficient player.

Mobley's transformation over these past 30 games have been unbelievable. It seems to me that the main cause of his increase in production is that he has slowed his game down considerably. He doesn't look to drive into the teeth of the defense at every opportunity but rather picks his battles. He seems to be taking what the defense is giving him. He no longer plays with the ball but moves it if nothing materializes. Of course, his mechanics have also been corrected.

He has amazed us all and added different aspects to his game. I never in a million years thought I would be saying (or even thinking) this but I feel it is not out of the question that Mobley join the ranks of the elite shooting guards in the league. He can penetrate, create, and spot up. I want him to master the art of jump-shooting this summer. He will become a complete offensive force if he learns how to come off screens and shoot similar to Iverson and Allen.

Mobley will be an All-Star next year.

 

Same with me, although not publically on this bbs. I tend to shake my head and keep saying, "just learn from that."

I never predicted any of his improvement each year. I agree a lot with your recap of history. I also agree with your assessment that's he's slowed down the game, and I'm a firm believer he needed to speed it way up, first, to succeed by slowing it down...does that make sense? There is a philosophy that I believe the coaches buy into that it takes many reps in live action to develop, especially those who rely on speed....it took all the Rudy ISO calls (when we tossed in the towel after Barkley went down) and PNRs for him to see when he can succeed and when he can't. He's making ISO reads better now.

Each yr I mentally placed a ceiling on him, and he busted through it. First I didn't believe he was so fast. Second, I didn't believe he could finish 101 different ways at that speed, figuring he could only lay it in or do a reverse like most players. Third, I wondered whether he could still succeed when the NBA started focusing defenses to stop him. I think it was learning to run a PNR, still succeeding against aggressive traps of those PNRs, and the increasingly successful ISOs punctuated by when Latrell and Van Gundy's quick weakside help couldn't stop him last year from taking it straight to the rim that I decided that I can't place potential ceilings on him anymore.

Even still, I worried about the zones as I'm sure everyone did. Maybe new rules could stop him, but I sure thought it foolish to predict anything.

I didn't know what he was going to do, but figured it had to involve learning to gain separation, so he could get off a money shot from the dribble.

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So, what's the next test?