Man, some of you guys really have a lot of trouble understanding and following very simple bets. The bet is for the home opener, and it has always been based on who is announced at the game....no excuses. btw: still think Kenny is expendable there Sane??
If Ming starts on November 2nd, Heyp wins fair and square. It looked like he was going to lose, but if Cato is out, and Ming starts, Heyp earned his victory. Either way he paid or will pay a lot of money for this bet win or lose. Even if you don't like him, you have to respect his dedication to keeping this site running by helping out with funds. B
I'm fine with the bet, and STILL think KT is expendable. No doubt in my mind. I always said that if we dumped KT, we should pick up a veteran who could play 10 minutes a game if asked. If T-Mo wasn't out at the same time, this wouldnt even be a problem. Tell me what the chances are that again, at some point during the season, or ever, Mo T will be out with a suspension, T-Mo will be hurt, Cato will be hurt, and Ming and Griffin will still be foul prone? Heypee, I WANT to keep KT. But there ARE no minutes for him, UNLESS there are injuries. Go to Mr. Kenny Thomas, and tell him that he is the 3rd string PF, and 2nd string SF (maybe), and also tell him that he will only ever get more than 12 minutes if someone is injured. Basically, tell him he's insurance. Do you think he's going to be happy about that? This is an isolated situation. For us, it's to our benefit to trade KT for a pick because, we may not have one next year. If KT stays or leaves, it won't make more than a 1 game difference to our record. I'd rather have a pick next year, than have KT make (not even) a 1 game difference to our record then walk next year.
Sane, go to Rudy and tell HIM that Kenny's a 2nd string SF and he'll ask you who's starting. Or, more likely, he'll politely smile, sign an autograph, and start Kenny at the 3. Long as Kenny's here, he'll get 20 minutes a game. It's the other guys that'll lose minutes. KT's a veteran now. And one that knows the various systems. He can play 3-4-5 if necessary and he will get his. KT won't be here for his career (and Mo probably won't either), but we need him now. And frankly he needs us now too. He's got a lot to prove in his contract year, and he'll have plenty of time to prove it. Here. If anybody wants a new bet on that, I'm game. Name terms.
so does Eddie start at Center tomorrow? If it is Collier, I will stop being a Rockets fan until he takes a seat on the bench where he belongs(or scores 8 pts. which ever comes first).
Eddie starts at PF. Unless Rudy gets crazy and starts Rice or Collier at PF and Nachbar at SF, which would leave him without a bench. Either way, major minutes go to the team that most people are calling the Rocket team of the future: Francis, Mobley, Nachbar, Griffin, Yao. Should be interesting.
I'm up for it. If Griffin, Mo T, Rice, and Boki OR T-Mo are healthy, KT still won't get 20 minutes. If Our whole roster is healthy, KT will struggle for 10. Man, if only MoT, Griffin and Rice are healthy, STILL I can only see him getting a MAX of 20 minutes. Oh yeah, another thing, KT won't be happy with 20 minutes in a contract year, if ever. Believe me, the minute MoT looks comfortable (5-10 games) and Griffin starts looking comfortable (15 games), KT's a goner. KT won't start over Rice btw. Right now, KT is an insurance policy. TELL ME why you're opposed to trading KT and a 2nd rounder for a 1st rounder and a veteran who isn't expecting to play, but can give 15 minutes if asked.
so any cato update? probably gametime tomorrow. that would be a tough break because with mo and kt out, collier might have been relied upon to backup eddie at the 4. imo, after watching the preseason there is no way a healthy kenny thomas only plays 10 minutes a game. rudy likes and needs the hustle and second-chance points that he brings. he's also extremely loyal and kenny was a bright star last year. the way i see it is unless rice absolutely torches the nets kenny will still see alot of crunch time at the 3 and nachbar will have to learn from the bench. even with tmo maybe breaking out he would still have to outplay kt for time which is easier said than done. it's good depth to have and with injuries always a possibility there's no such thing as an expendable player on the team.
Sane, I love both Mo T and Glen Rice, but it's gonna take a year before I'm comfortable with them not getting injured on a hard play. I give you Eddie Griffin, but with all his improvement, his shot's still not consistent and he hasn't found that easy scoring option yet. Kenny has. In fact, he's got a few. We can count on him. We don't know yet if we can count on the other guys right now (Eddie'll get there, no doubt). That's why it's still wait and see. From the Rockets' end it's wait and see if we need him. Take Morris and Boki out of the equation. They don't matter this year and they're not gonna skip KT. That's not to say I don't want to see them try, but they're about next year (barring injuries that make heroes out of them). KT's our solid guy. Brass probably figures he's maxed out his potential, but he's still got enough to make him our starting 3 unless Rice beats him for it. And I doubt he will, regardless of his clear improvement. Rice is gone after next year. Maybe Boki's ready, maybe not. I think he will be, but maybe not. Again, skip T-Mo. He's working for next year. He won't start unless he has to. Sounds like an insurance policy, I agree. But KT needs us too. ESPN wasn't TOO far off ranking him under the top 20 free agents for next year. He needs another year of solid contribution to rank higher. And he needs to rank higher to get not just the contract but the minutes he wants. And he will get 20 minutes this year, if not more. We have three solid vets on this team: KT, Cat and Steve. They know the system, they're confident and they're (in Rockets terms) iron men. What KT has on the other two though is that he can play any front court position. He's in great shape and he's in great game shape. I think he'd have a good fight to start over Mo and he'd have a good fight to start over Glen, but whether he starts over either of them, he will get his minutes. And if he's gone by the All-Star break it'll be because he got his minutes and he drew value in a trade (thought I can't imagine what we'd even want in a trade). We don't need another draft pick. In fact, we don't need a trade at all. This team is so young and so versatile, we'd only be picking for long term backups anyway. And what better backup than KT? Two years from now, if the fantasy lineup comes true, I'd be very very happy to pay KT good money to be the league's best sixth man. And, as a sixth man, as much as I like Mo Taylor, KT's more versatile and a better defender. Bottom line, he's a Rocket. It's awkward now, but without value I don't see trading him. We might let him walk for a better situation, given our contracts and the luxury tax but I don't see us trading him. We don't need a pick and anything we'd get back would be less than what we gave.
Today's Depth Chart Yao/Collier Griffin/Collier Rice/Nachbar/Hawkins Mobley/Francis/Hawkins Francis/Norris/Maddox At times like this, it makes me glad that the Rockets have so many versatile multi-positional players. Otherwise, it would have been 3-guard lineup the whole nights... Is Mickeal playing? And also, forgive the conspiracy theory, but doesn't it sound like a rather convenient coincidence for Cato to get a flu NOW? It sure saves a great deal of face on all sides (Rudy, Yao, Cato, NBA, Rocket fans, and China), about who's starting the first game. Great idea!
I like Kenny Thomas but i think that we could use a good defensive guard, more then anything. But then again Rice is on his last leg. And we could use a good young backup forward. Is he fast enough to play SF. If he is you would have in the future Francis Maddox Mobley Moochie Boki Thomas Morris Griffen MoT YaoM Cato actually that is what it is now so you could i guess take off taylor like i said and get a good d guard and take off Maddox which is a really long way from helping anyways. I think trading him if you get something fair in return would be best. Rudy should sign me up as GM... LoL
Sane I am with you on most of that stuff, except the overall feeling that KT cannot command a starting spot when our younger players are developed. I would say that what KT has done so far, in terms of transformation, suggests we may all have a tendency to underestimate him and project his doom. He may just cause a lot of trouble at the 3 spot this year and make that ESPN ranking look foolish.
Listen, I don't disagree with ANYONE's assesment of KT's skills. I do think his speed and quickness becomes average AT BEST when playing the SF spot. I also agree that KT would make a GREAT sixth man. I do NOT agree with ANYONE who thinks that KT can ever demand a starting spot on a team that is vying for the playoffs, and can probably get 5th seed with some luck. To think any playoff team can have a 6'6 player at PF is somewhat pushing it. One think I'm worried about is this: Kenny has become so lean, it's becoming difficult to see him playing PF effectively. He's too small now. If we were willing and able to unload MoT's contract for a short term contract, then I'd be happy to give KT the VERY temporary start, and the eventual 6th man role. But we all know that Mo T isn't going anywhere until he can put 82 games into this season without significant pain. You cannot AT ALL remove T-Mo and Boki from the equation. T-Mo has worked INCREDIBLY hard on his game, and made a HUGE impression on Rudy in practice and 2 games of preaseason. He's also one of the few players that can play D, and our only tall SF. Let's say he gets 10 minutes. As for Boki. He's our FUTURE Small Forward. Are you telling me that Rudy won't give hima MINIMUM MINIMUM MINIMUM MINIMUM of 10 minutes a night? So 20 minutes between Boki and T-Mo. Let's say Rice plays 24 minutes. That's 44 minutes at SF, leaving 4. Let's assume T-Mo plays 2 minutes at PF, and say there's 6 minutes at SF. Now you have (after 5 games) Mo T getting AT LEAST 23 minutes and Griffin getting AT LEAST 23 minutes too. That's 46, plus T-Mo's 2, so no minutes at PF. So there's 6 minutes at SF. If you cut out EITHER Boki OR T-Mo, that still gives KT a total of 16 minutes a game. I must say, it's a real stretch to think that Rice will be content with 24, and MoT and Griff will be content with 23. Those guys will want at least 25 each. YOU show me somehow how we're going to fit KT in, while getting him the 25 minutes he WANTS to prove himself in a contract year. Notice, I didn't say he's bad. I said his height is no good for the PF spot, much less a Western PF spot, much less a Western Conference Playoffs PF spot.
I didn't watch most of the preseason games, but I didn't see any indication from the boxscores that Boki was going to be tearing the league up anytime soon. Plus, isn't he supposed to be a defensive liability? KT has proven himself on both ends of the court. Rudy wants to win games. Why would he give any of KT's minutes to Boki?
Sane, that post seems like it was written before the first article from the Chron that KT was going to be a SF. Why? Because he has made the successful transition to the SF and the thought of him playing PF should be more and more an exception. When we are talking about minute distribution and who gets what KT is at the top of the heap at SF. If we do not play an uptempo game and keep player minutes under 32 we will have problems (player attitude) at more position than SF. The key though is, like ESPN, you have not fully appreciated KT's game. Believe me I had him going out of town too. But the team have different plans and I am beginning to see why and it is more than just insurance. At SF in this league, KT is going to be able to score in multiple ways. He will be a net positive matchup for us on most nights. Offensively very few SF can stop him in the post. We could go to him in the post like SA goes to Duncan if we wanted to. Right or left side, it does not matter, that is there for us. He is underrated on the range on his jumper. When driving he is very likely to get fouled. Many believe that he cannot score 14 pts again and I think can up that to 16, and that is only because of the amount of scorers we have. Defensively he is up there. He is our best defensive SF since Pippen and McCray. Finally, very few SF will outrebound KT. All of this has nothing to do with how good Boki and Tmo is and how recovered Rice is. Bottomline, he is going to solidfy his hold on the starting SF spot and you know I believe we are a contender.
<blockquote><hr>Originally posted by Sane This is an isolated situation. For us, it's to our benefit to trade KT for a pick because, we may not have one next year. <hr></blockquote> If we trade Kenny for a pick before the trade deadline, that pick is more than likely to be lottery protected....don't you think?? That means we will probably not realize that pick for years out. What a freaking waste. It is too risky to trade Kenny for a pick when you don't know what it is, or when you will get it. Further, it is very doubtful anyone who definitely isn't making the playoffs will give up a lottery pick before they know what it is. Thus, you keep Kenny and try for trades in the Summer. I don't get your urgency. It doesn't make sense at all to me. It is too risky. Kenny is a restricted free agent. Losing him for nothing is not as risky as the prospect of getting a sucky pick 3 yrs from now.
I thought Tito, TMo and Mickeal were IL? Yao Ming/Collier EG/Collier Rice/Boki/Hawkins Steve/Mooch Cat/Steve/Hawkins This could get ugly...
Man, you guys who think we will let Kenny walk are ...imvso... going to be very surprised by Kenny's defense this year. Very surprised. By summer, over half of this BBS will be saying get rid of Mo for luxury tax reasons and keep Kenny. This team is going to become all about defense. Kenny as the starting 3 is the first sign. Torres getting cut is the second sign. The third sign will be a noticeably improved Mobley concentrating every set on defense. The final sign will be trading Maurice over letting Kenny walk, if indeed we have a luxury tax issue. note: I don't think we trade either, unless this Luxury Tax issue does become an issue. btw: I don't think we will have a luxury tax kick in in 2003-2004. This year's tax is an anamoly, because of the new TV contract is generated a one yr shortfall. The regular TV revenue kicks in the following year and Yao's presence generating China contracts will be kicking in. Larry Coon has guessed to date that the tax will only last one year. Owners are also discussing getting rid of the tax, and the Player's Union definitely wants it gone.
