I would say that Ming played very well agains Portland and he was still benched. So much for the "he has to earn his minutes bull crap"
Forenzi, imo, Yao did not play that well. And Rudy won the game with perfect choice of subsitutions. Yao is not doing much on defense, and he should be getting a lot more rebounds...we were outscored 10-6 in the 1st Q when he came in. The main thing is...we got back into the game with Hawkins starting the 2nd Half, and we won the game with Yao on the bench in the 4th. Face it,,,Yao had no effect on the outcome of this game, and Rudy made all the right personnel decision to win a crucial game. Rudy is giving Yao more time based on performance of Yao and the rest of the team. They lineup with Hawkins was the superior defensive lineup and led to easy buckets on fastbreaks.
HP, Forget about Ming for a second. I think it would have been beneficial to him and the team to have started...you disagree. I think when he is doing as well offensively as he was last night, he should get more shots, and Rudy is partially to blame for that not happening...whatever, it's a difference of opinion. What about Collier? What is the reason he should get any playing time at all? The team definitely was not familiar playing with him - why play him at all? Maybe we start Francis, Mobley, Rice, Thomas and Griffin we don't come out flat. Who knows. It was a bad decision by Rudy though. It seems like your comfortable with Rudy's offensive philosophy of giving one player the shots to get going, and then going with another player, etc. Granted, I don't know if this is how other coaches around the league operate. But, when I watch Dallas or NJ or Seattle this year it doesnt seem as if their offensive revolve around players, but around plays, and getting people in open/smart positions to make plays. In terms of schemes, this is my main problem with Rudy. I also think he isn't good enough at drilling the fundamentals into his young team. And his rotations are too iffy for me - sometimes they work, as with the Hawk last night, sometimes they don't (but that would happen if I was coaching, too). I recognize he has a lot of positive traits as a coach, but I can see anotehr coach getting more out of this team, that's all.
you are missing my point about Familiarity. It has little to do with familiarity with Collier. The familiarity is about starting SF, CM, EG, and KT with a center...and not Hawkins or Rice. The familiarity is to run plays to EG and KT to start the game and make certain they are guarded normally...which wouldn't happen with Hawkins or Rice. Am I making this up?? Rudy used to get MoT off immediately. Last year, KT was doing it, and this year EG and KT are getting plays right off. Plus, we are running some motion at the beginning, too, which Yao is probably not that familiar with, as Collier. We have rarely ever run plays for Cuttino to start the game, and SF seems to score more later than earlier, right? The familiarity is about a coach in a lockerroom running through 5-6 minutes of sets..."Team, this is what we are going to do to start the game, and this is what we are looking for. Then Yao comes in and we then do what we've been practicing with Yao." The Yao familiarity also involves a 2nd game plan. They change offenses and defenses, and it looks like they are trying to work the guards with Yao and playing a 3-2 zone with Yao at the point. Rudy simply chose to stick to a set sequence. If Cato was injured, then maybe Rudy does change that sequence. Anyhoot, both game plans do the Rockets good. We need to slowly get Yao's game plan some PT, but getting EG and KT off at the beginning of the game helps them and helps the team see how they are being defending. bottomline: we currently have three game plans...one with Cato, one with Yao, and one fielding KT/EG with no center. That's the familiarity we are working on.
Yao played much better than previous games. He's getting a little comfortable in the game compare to the lost and confused before. I' m very glad to see every his developement game by game. Definitely, Yao is much better than Collier yesterday even Collier is starter. Yao didn't made Rockets more worse in his presence than the absence. I think Rudy didn't start Yao just becuase he wouldn't like to put much pressure on Yao. Yao would become a force after a while. Be patient!
"Yao is not doing much on defense, and he should be getting a lot more rebounds...we were outscored 10-6 in the 1st Q when he came in. " Yao had 4 rebounds 1 block 2 assists and 7 points in 15 minutes of play. What do you mean he needs to rebound more? What more can you ask for in this amount of time. His defense was a little short of perfect. These stats dont include the times when guards had to alter their shots on their way to the basket. I guess Yao needs to have some ungodly monstrous game in order for people to understand that no matter what Yao does Rudy will only give him 13-16 minutes. Rudy thinks that regardless of how Yao plays he will need to bring him along slowly.
If the Rockets are in the playoff race later on, and Cato has to miss a game for whatever reason, will Rudy start Collier again. Familiarity or not, I hope it isn't the case.
If the Rockets are in a playoff race later, and the team is as inconsistent with Yao's game plan as they are now, that would mean Yao is not contributing to the .600 winning % it will take to be in a playoff race, so I would start MoT or Hawk. If Yao's consistency improves to the point that he is making us a playoff contender and the rest of the offense is what's inconsistent, I'd expect him to become a starter based on that...not needing a Cato injury. If it is a mix, Yao's contributing to wins at an equal rate to a non-Yao team, then it is probably going to be based on injury or Cato's performance to determine the starter. I'm sure Rudy will be wary of Yao hitting the wall, though, given we'll need him at playoff time. You honestly don't believe Rudy thinks that way? Yao can learn consistency the way Rudy is handling him with 15-25 mpg based on performance....that's how he handled Griffin last year (giving him more minutes based on production), and Griffin still hit the wall, but doesn't seem less of a developed player now, does he? Starting Yao right now is not a magical solution to making him more consistent.
Given that the difference between making the playoffs and not could be one game (look at two years ago), why did we start Collier? Taylor was just coming back and Rudy didn't have the faith in Hawkins to do it, but he could have started Rice. As per Yao, it's just a difference of opinion on his and the teams combined developement.
dude, I am not a Yao basher. All I want is more energy and decisiveness from him. I root for him greatly. He was not involved in our 3rd Q comeback, and we won the 4th Q without him. Why are you complaining??? Yao is still missing rebounds. Cato is getting 11 rebounds on 28 minutes, so 4 on 15 is not that exciting for a center. He is not collecting all (or even most) of what comes his way. He is getting muscled and out-jumped. He is inconsistent in his mobility and aggressiveness. btw: Yao does not need to have a monstrous game to get more than 13-16 minutes. He just needs to move better like he did in the Toronto game when he got TWENTY-FOUR MINUTES....half the center minutes. He just needs to play with more decisiveness and energy. His game will take care of itself with just that...just like Cato's game has improved with more energy alone.
<blockquote><hr>Originally posted by JayZ750 Given that the difference between making the playoffs and not could be one game (look at two years ago), why did we start Collier? Taylor was just coming back and Rudy didn't have the faith in Hawkins to do it, but he could have started Rice.<hr></blockquote> Why are you asking the same question again? First off, Rudy has started Hawkins already, so he does have faith in him. My point is that if we start Maurice or Rice our game plan to start a game changes, and ripples through the rotation. Didn't I already state that? To start a game that we are familiar with is to have Griffin at PF and KT at SF. Not playing a center screws that up. <blockquote><hr> As per Yao, it's just a difference of opinion on his and the teams combined developement. <hr></blockquote> Understand that I'm not stating an opinion about who should start. I'm stating an opinion about what Rudy might be thinking. You are the one stating an opinion about what we should do with Yao...not me. My only opinion about Yao is he is not impressing me consistently enough to question a coach's development of him versus the need to develop Griffin, KT, SF the defense, the transition and the development of a 5man offense that Yao seems lost in. We have many things we are try to become Familiar with; Yao is just one of them. My opinion is that it makes no sense to say Rudy "makes no sense" when it is common to stick with status quo when feeding rookies, and he's got many other things he's working on.
This is a list of Rockets sorted by the rate that they are getting rebounds: Player ---- Rebounds per 48 minutes K Cato----- 18.9 Y Ming----- 12.4 K Thomas-- 12.1 E Griffin---- 10.8 J Collier---- 10.7 S Francis--- 9.6 B Nachbar-- 8.0 J Hawkins--- 5.7 M Norris---- 5.6 G Rice------ 3.4 C Mobley--- 3.2 So, in answer to the comment that Yao Ming doesn't rebound, the only answer is, he's rebounding better than anyone on the Rockets whose name isn't Cato. David.
The reason I keep bringing it up because it's a contradiction. Let's say familiarity is the most important thing right now. I'd argue that familiarity is about who you're playing with first and foremost, not what position they're playing. Case in point to back this is the fact that we didn't play a center most of the game, except when Yao was in there. Our rotation was screwed before the game started. So why start with the most unfamiliar lineup possible? To keep a familiar rotation? Rice is old, but he could have played the extra 5 minutes (24 instead of 19) that Collier started to game. Sorry, but it makes no sense to me to put a liability on the court just to keep a familiar rotation. Where does it say its common sense to stick with the status quo when feeding rookies? We certainly didn't do that with Mobley, Cassel, Francis? dwmyers- Excellent stats. And HP is right when he says Yao has a lot to improve upon in that category. Shows you how good he can be.
heypee: i never considered that angle before...familiarity for ming. i mean, with all the things going on with him, the world must seem like it's upside down, inside out, round and round! having a basic foundation with his playing time might be a good thing for him. it gives him something that is "definite" and that he can properly prepare for. hmmm... upside down...yao you turn me...inside out....and round and round!!! go diana!!!
Yes, but that depends on the standard you're comparing him to. Yao is a really tall guy, he's not a 250 pound 6 9 kind of fellow. Now, given that, I thought that the Rockets might get a Rick Smits set of numbers out of him if he played a whole game, which would be generally 12 points and 8 rebounds, with improvements on those numbers towards the end of this year. Right now he'd probably give the Rockets 9-10 rebounds in a 36 minute game. His offense is erratic though improving. Cause of his height and lack of upper body strength, I don't think he's going to turn into Moses Malone or Dennis Rodman overnight, and Cato's rebounding numbers are in Moses Malone/ Dennis Rodman territory. 18.9 in 48 minutes is 14.1 rebounds in 36, and I don't think anyone is going to average 14.1 for a season this year. What we're more likely to see next is steady improvement in his shooting percentages, climbing to over 50%. I don't expect him to be very good defensively for most of this year. Rookies generally suck as defenders. Next year is likely to be a different story. David.
If I may jump in. The confusion regarding Yao Ming's playing time (and/or starting w/ Cato out) is this: 1. Some people say that Ming needs to EARN his playing time. Others say he should have gotten PT last night due to his performance. 2. heypartner says that Rudy didn't start Ming nor give him more PT because of some set game plans which Rudy didn't want to disrupt even w/o Cato. The confusion is that 1. and 2. don't square. If the game plans are set, it doesn't matter how well Ming plays, he will have a fixed amount of PT. Am I correct?
<blockquote><hr> So why start with the most unfamiliar lineup possible? <hr></blockquote> Who are you to say that is the most unfamiliar lineup possible? 5 out of 5 players were in their camp positions, and their longterm positions. You can run every single play that you start any game with. If you instead move Griffin to center, you screw up Griffin's familiarity...as Rudy picks and chooses small minutes at center for Griffin under certain match-ups. Knocking Griffin off his pregame preparations with a position change that will effect his opening minute play call that he's been getting is not good for his development; whereas, keeping Yao status quo does not hurt his. verse, It isn't just whats familiar for Ming. It is wants familiar for the whole team. Griffin has been getting plays called off the bat. That is as important as talk about juggling the starting lineup just so Collier doesn't play the first 8 minutes.
Easy, I actually think they do square up. You can develop Yao each game without screwing the game plans that are centered around Yao not starting for now. Rudy has a set series of possessions in the 1st Quarter, and he seems to have a different plan that's he's working on with Yao. This is common Rudy, and common for many coaches to have a game plan for the 1st Quarter that helps you test match-ups and adjustments to make for the rest of the game. go 2 or 3 times to Griffin in different manners. Get Kenny off, to see how the zone works against that. Try some motion to see what the defense does...now bring in Yao, and look at his things and how he feels. Now you are into the 2nd Q, and you have a good feel for what their defensive game plan is and who on your team is getting the advantage or feeling good.
Easy: Take it easy. I bet Ming will start at mid of December- the bottom line (or the dead line) for those sponsors. read this article. http://www.nanfangdaily.com.cn/ty/20021108/nba/200211080906.asp
Exactly - I don't know, you don't know, etc. All we can do is offer opinion and evaluate what we see - in retrospect, it didn't seem to work too well to me - who knows what would have happened otherwise?? This is part of my problem with Rudy - he is such an individual person play caller, that now, we are arguing about whether or not a certain player will play as well if he doesn't get plays specifically called for him off the bat. IMO, a more fluid offense would not have this feature in it. In addition, we can see how that can also lead to problems when certain players get injured/have personal obligations to attend to. Anyway, I think this is a pretty healthy debate. wind&sea - What does the article say?
