I think that quote is going to make me sick. Just the thought of the most over paid player in the world for several more years on our team makes me ill. BTW, saving money for what ever reason is just a very good by-product of the trade, nothing more. Use it for what ever reason.
Fortson is 6'9" like Barkley is 6'8" or whatever the claim was when he played. Remind me why Fortson has been on everyone's getridof list -- Denver, Boston, NY, GS. I would rather see my beloved Rox stay with the same cast of b*tth*les than just bring in new b*tth*les, because they are at least 'mine'. Cato should be packaged, and well may be -- but for talent befitting 7 feet of competence. It is good of you to keep trying to better our beloved Rox. keep trying til you get it right.
hey, LaFrentz contract is for just one yr longer than Cato's and only about 1/2 mil more. LaFrentz can legitimately back up two of our positions, something Fortson and Cato might not be able to do. heck, imo, flat out, right now, LaFrentz does what Griffin tries to do, and better...better shooter, more controlled blocker and taller defender. The effectiveness of us having the rare ability to move LaFrentz to a PF roll, matched with Yao Ming, might surprise us. LaFrentz not having to be an anchor might work. anyhow, I like him better than Fortson, and moving Cato for no center in return makes me nervous.
Hey crash, I agree that this would be a win/WIN trade but its overly lopsided in the Mavericks situation. In fact, this trade is very similar to the scam that Dallas just pulled off. Dallas needs Cato more than Fortson because they need a true center who isn't scared of the paint. Plus, they need a backup point guard. So, Dallas would fill two needs and suddenly become a favorite again. But where would Houston be? We'd suddenly have that recurring logjam at PF and no backup point guard. Yes, we'd have salary cap room but isn't that the benefit that Golden State claims? Rockets fans may not be as deprived as the Warrior fans but I don't think they'll be too happy with another non-playoff year just so we can hope a big FA signs with us the following summer. Also, I'm not sold on Fortson's attitude. Yes, Cato had baggage but look what happened last year. I think Fortson still has baggage. The word is that Fortson didn't play not only because of his attitude, but also his lack of defense. That's something when you consider the Warriors were the worst defensive team in the league.
I'm with you 100%, I was about to write the same thing when I read your post. You at the very least get some size with LaFrentz that you don't get with Fortson. Plus he also has some range on his shot that Fortson doesn't have and with Rice and Mills contracts expiring after this year you get a bonus with that too. First trade idea I really like that I've seen on this site that's probably doable. I don't think it pays big dividends for the Rox immediately but it gives us another big man that has some game and gives us some pretty good cap space for next year's FA class or ability to make a trade.
Your joking about LaFrentz right? He can't even stay on the floor long enough to back up one position much less two. When he is on the floor he is useless 4 out of 5 nights. There is absolutely zero compeling reasons to trade Cato for LaFrentz. At least if Fortson does not work out then he is off of the books in 05. LaFrentz? He sucks and you know it.
amen Cato is a serviceable center, a real commodity Forston is a grossly overpriced almost talentless power forward who couldn't take minutes away from either Griffin or Taylor. If there is any trade that would do us no good, Cato for Forston is it. I wouldn't even trade Mo for Forston.
Actually, I remember this board going nuts with trade proposals for LaFrentz just two years ago. As has been mentioned, LaFrentz can backup the 5, play the 4, shoot the rock and is a good off the ball defender (which is far better than Fortson.) I would also make this trade (Cato-LaFrentz) straight up, but it's a lot more attractive to me if Cuban signs and trades Raja Bell to us with a one year contract and takes Moochie in return.
I remember people on this board foaming at the mouth over LaFrentz when he was with Denver. Unfortunately for Reaf he now sucks. There is just no denying that he has sucked totally and completely since going to Dallas. I live in Dallas and the fans hate Reaf worse than they use to hate Bradley here. Reaf just can't hold Cato's jock. No way I would ever consider a trade of Cato for Reaf. On top of all that Reaf's contract would be an untradable albatros around our neck for the next several years.
I'd do it if the finald deal was like this: Mills, Rice, Griffin to Atlanta SAR and Ratliff to Portland Wallace and our choice of McInnis or Patterson to Houston Even though Portland is trying to clear cap space, I sincerely doubt they wouldn't trade 2 players whom they're tryign to get rid of for 2 players who have a squeeky clean reputation, and fit 2 MAJOR needs for them. SAR can be the 3, and can take over the 4 in case Randolph isn't quite ready to take the reigns 100%. Ratliff gives them the C they need now that Sabonis is gone. Atlanta would do it simply because they're trying to clear their roster, gain 15M in expiring contracts, as well as a young piece in Eddie Griffin to add to Nazr Mohammed in their frontcourt, Diaw and Terry in the backcourt. It's obvious why Houston would do it. The only thing to consider is how in God's name would we be able to re-sign Rasheed next season if he wants the MAX. Yao/MoT/Rasheed Rasheed/MoT/Fortson Griffin/Boki/Rasheed Mobley/Pike Francis/McInnis A PF/C rotation of Ming, Wallace, Fortson, and MoT is great. Our SF position is a bit thin, but we have 3 vey different looks in Griffin, Boki, and Rasheed. We can exploit some matchups there. I'd prefer taking on McInnis, since he's an expiring contract. I know it's only 3M, but believe me, every dollar will count when we're trying to re-sign Rasheed.
crash - here's the sixty day rule from Larry Coon : In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances: For two months after receiving the player in trade, if the player is being traded in combination with other players. However, the team is free to trade the player by himself (not packaged with other players) immediately. This two-month restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 71 for a special case where players can be traded together in less than two months.) You can get the rest. It's question 80-something.
The trade would be much more equitable if you traded Cato and Moochie for Bradley and Mills. To hell with Fortson....a complete cancer. Rots your team out from the inside. Slow, painful death. He parks near the basket and gets a lot of boards but can't play D and is not much of a scoring threat. However, if we get Bradley, whose contract is cheaper than Cato's, we get a very serviceable 18-20 mpg backup. Mills' contract we can wipe off the books next year. Problem is, if we use players Dallas would have received and go after, say, Brian Grant (Mo + Mills would work), Dallas would balk. Of course, we could still get someone like Grant in a different deal (Mo and whomever, I guess). Thing is, how much do we want to rid ourselves of Cato's and Moochie's ill-advised contracts? Does it help Dallas too much and us too little? Can't any of the other 19 teams that called Dallas come up with something better?
His listed height and his actual height are two different things. I think in reality he is about 6-6 in shoes. Fortson is baggage and a negative value good in NBA circles, who's played in like 50 games the past two seasons, no thanks.
Crash, i didn't really say I'd trade Cato for LaFrentz and Mills (for reasons that I don't want to give Dallas their last missing piece). I'm suggesting it more to show how little I like the Fortson idea. anyhow, what's so despising about LaFrentz. Did he totally lose mobility, because I thought he was had very efficient footwork. Just because fans despise him, doesn't mean much to me. We despised Cato around here until now. Often that fan attitude is because of the contract. Cato and LaFrentz have similar contracts and similar fan hate. That doesn't mean that they lost all their skills, or can't find a new roll with new surroundings that focuses their game to what they are good at. to me, Raef looks to be asked to do something that he can't do (anchor the worst defense in the league). If you have a real center (Yao Ming), allowing you to move Raef into a Schrempf/Sam Perkins type roll....the dude DID shoot 40% 3s. And he has shot 40% more than once. He can pull out defenses...something Griffin can't do. Right now, he is a better backup to MoT than Griffin is...imso. Cato is a better backup to Yao, and better defender. But I do like the versatility of Raef far superior to Danny Fortson.
LaF is a competent player who could complement Yao. His biggest problem (besides being miscast in Dallas, IMO) is he is foul prone. In Rocketville if he were playing Cato-like minutes then he would have ample fouls. If all he were asked for would be 15-18 minutes, then why pay gazillions for him?
btw: Cato is the one playing 15-18 minutes at equal pay to LaFrentz who plays 20-25 minutes. So the gazillion thing applies to Cato, as well. Talking about the foul proneness of a backup is largely irrelevant. Don't you think Dallas asks Bradley and Raef to use their fouls. Besides, Cato is foul prone when he plays aggressive defense like we need him to. Don't you remember Rudy preaching to him, "stay down," and Cato took that as meaning, "ooh, cool, it's ok if I just lope around." I expect Cato trades to have a little bit of distaste attatched to them, roughly equal to the distaste I have for his current contract, but less than the distaste I have for giving Dallas Cato, or the distaste that teams seem to have for Fortson.
Fans in Dallas despise LaFrentz because he has failed them on the court not because of his contract. The contract just makes it that much worse because it is now so hard to move him. While Cato was despised, now most fans see him as an asset, an over paid asset maybe but still an asset. The fans and pretty much everyone including sports announcers see Lafrentz as a worthless lump of flesh that steals money from the organization, kind of like we felt for Cato prior top last season. And please don’t be surprised by Reaf’s 40% 3pt percentage. The shot seldom falls when you really need it. He goes hot and cold kind of like Walt Williams would do. Walt usually had a good percentage from behind the arc but there were just too many nights that he would just disappear, Reaf is the same way. His lack of consistency shooting threes when it counts is exactly why he was not able to stretch defenses. Pulling guys like Shaq out of the post with his long range shooting is exactly what Nellie has vocally admitted to trying to do with Reaf and Reaf has failed at doing that. Also Dallas absolutely does not want Reaf to use his fouls in the first quarter. They have tried to make the guy a starter but they have had to put him on the bench for lack of performance and foul problems. They have never had to ask Reaf or Bradley to foul since they have been in Dallas because both have done it willing and with out encouragement since there arrival in Dallas. Cuban and Nellie have both been vocal about their disappointment in Reaf.
