First off, I didn't say Yao is as bad as Bradley, that's his downside, but I also said that his upside is no better than Arvydas Sabonis. Also, I'm neither Mexican nor anti-Chinese, however, I am anti-Chinese basketball. They have not had a proven NBA player and I'm not about ready to use the first overall pick to see if they can have one. And about Bradley's competition in 90-91 in the WAC. Try Larry Johnson, JR Rider, Stacy Augmon, Anderson Hunt, Elmore Spencer, Marlon Maxey, Luc Longley, Greg Anthony.... Yes, all but Maxey and Longley were Runnin Rebels, but that's because they would RUN the Chinese team(well, circa 5 years ago). China wasn't competitive in the 2000 Olympics, either. They went 2-4 and were spanked 119-72 by the US. As for Yao that game? He fouled out a minute into the second half.
Let's see... if we draft Ming and he turns out to be a 21 year old, healthy Arvydas Sabonis, then that's a bad thing? Sorry, man, but that post tells me more about your basketball savvy, than probably any other that I've ever read by any poster. And, that's no compliment.
Cat, I think he meant "lit up", like he had his way with Ming. I did not see the entire workout. But I have read most of the scouting reports, which state that Ming was very unimpressive defensively. Something about Ming was unable to guard Christofferson, and consistently was giving up easy shots (layups). Also, the shorter guard had no problems shooting over Ming.
when you're 7'2" like christoferson, you're gonna get some blocks now and then. he blocked ming once, so what? that's pretty crappy scouting if you wanna base a guy's career on what happened in 5 seconds of a jet-lagged practice. jordan had his shot blocked many a time by "scrubs" i'm sure. (no i'm not comparing ming and jordan.)
If you saw Hakeem Olajuwon get dunked on by a small PG like say....Kevin Johnson, would that mean that he can't play defense and that we should have legitimate concerns about him? One block really doesn't mean a whole lot. Also, can some people post the links to some of these critical comments about Ming or use some exact quotes. I'm not questioning the authenticity of them, but I'd like to just see them for myself.
queso, you said the wac was "loaded." I guess what you meant was UNLV was loaded? I don't know. All I know is the WAC isn't nor has been a power conference. I may be wrong, but I think those guys are older than Bradley. I'm not sure Shawn played against Johnson and Longley.
Tozai...nope you posted pure speculation, I posted what has actually transpired through the years. Its absolutely asinine to beleive that: 1. After 3 years of no almost no fast breaking, that the arrival of Odom is going suddenly inject the running spirit into Mobley and Francis. Deal with it. Fact is that they havent done it. Wishing is thinking Odom is going to lead to it. 2. Odom isnt about making as much money as he can. This was the absolute, most rediculous, way out there statement you made. Yep, sure thing. He's looking at Olawokandi whos trying to get the max and might get around it, and saying yep. Im happy getting junk shots, and put backs. Just stupid. 3. Anyone here really think that Odom is done with Pot? Seriously? Hes a young guy, whos been busted twice with it. Weather or not he gets caught with it again is a different story, but Ill guarntee you hes not done with it. Which leads to a possiblity of more suspensions. 4. I dont care what your trying to preach Tozai, Odom hasnt accomplished ****. Neither has Mobley, or Francis for that matter. Hell Kenny Thomas put up Odom numbers last year. Guess the bulls should trade the number 2 pick for Kenny then. 3 years of averaging around 16 points and 6 boards is nice, but anyone willing to give the number one pick for Rashard Lewis who puts up similar numbers? I could list you at least 10 players who put up similar numbers and have an upside to them. 5. Try not hacking up the whole story to get your (ahem) facts in. Henry also said that he floated those same shots up on Kevin Garnett. Lets not add the fact that, that particular workout took place after a long flight which he had to battle serious jet lag (hours worth) and an inability to get any sleep at all the night before. Lets see how anyone would fare after those situations. 6. Go back throught the posts newbie. Looks like more people love your stuff than just TBar. LOL. You closet ESPN message board troll. Now you can ASSume that suddenly the Rox are going run with Odom, or ASSume that Odom could care less about his financial future or stature, or ASSume that Odom wont be lighting it up anymore, or ASSume that this doesnt hurt the Rox bargaining power, or better yet ASSume that Odom is going to make up 40 games lost by seven points or less. But again, what your posting is pure speculation. As compared to whats actually transpired through these last few years. DO you feel that. That the thud of your post hitting the bottom of the trash can. Bishop, I could care less that Mobley has an opinion on the matter. I could care less if he told Les Alexander it. What I care is the bumbled way in which he handled that situation. What happens now if we do in fact Draft Ming, or better yet Jason Williams? There are going to be some hurt egos. And as its been stated, it cant help the Rox bargaining power. HeyP. You are correct in that Carrol has done a wonderful job of being the deal maker, and usually getting things done (except the Damon deal; what a blessing in disguse). But leaking and what Mobley did just dont seem to coincide with keeping your bargaining power strong. As Clutch so eloquantly put it, just look at how Rose approached it. If you want leaks, I dont think Carrol would use a player for that.
Didnt know I involved you HeyP. Only responded to your thread. After I took care of business with Tozai. It was a 3 part post. One for Tozow, one for Bishop, one for you.
while i do agree talking up one player (odom) could potentially hurt value i just don't think when GM's start talking the other one will say "but what about cat and steve saying they want odom" and dawson saying "ahh, you got me." they will look at the realistic values based on their thoughts, not anyone else's and if CD gets lowballed b/c of CM and SF, he could just walk away and say no deal and then maybe the other team will rethink lowballing him. as for jwill, the fact that multiple teams want him seems to almost make us immune to having his value lowered. any one team that wants to lower his value and make a crap offer will get passed up by one of the other teams and then if that is too low they will be passed and eventually we'll be back where we are in a bidding war.
Let me rephrase: Yao Ming's upside is Arvydas Sabonis during his NBA days. Yes Sabonis was supposedly some all world superstar during his younger, European playing days, but there's no way you can prove that he would have been a good NBA player then. He could have been similar to Yao whereas he can light up a lesser league because of his height but would have been merely the Arvydas Sabonis that we know all along if he had played in the NBA.
Odom and pot: Dreamshake, you are my new hero. Anyone who would put pot before their (multi-million dollar) job wouldn't be playing for my team, no matter how talented he might be.
Trade Cuttino Mobley. He's too stupid to grasp the concept of a team. He thinks a team is made up of 2 or 3 guys. The Rockets will NEVER when a championship with Mobley on the team. Yeah, they may make the playoffs, but how many future 1st round eliminations are we gonna take? Trade him. get rid of him. He's selfish.
I was not talking about the blocked shot on Ming. Literally every report from Chicago stated that Ming could not defend Cristeroferson, PERIOD. Cristeroferson would simply back up "ONE TIME" into Ming, and Ming would give way without putting up a fight. HE WAS VERY SOFT. The same thing has been written on literally every news site, that Ming will take several years to bulk up before he can handle NBA players. Dominating the CBA does not mean squat in the NBA. There are alot of good things about him. He has good running, passing, dribbing and shooting skills (facing the basket - only) and he will cause severe match up problems for opposing teams. But is very unrealistic to think he will come into the league and be better than Wang on defense. Mings on words state that Wang is the better, more versatile, defender.
They said Pau was soft, they said Dirk was soft.....are either one of them soft now? It does not take that long to adjust to the physicality of NBA play. DaDakota
Carrol Dawson and Rudy will make the best decision, they have been dealing with trades and drafts before Steve and Cuttino were even born. Sure, they want what they "think" whats best for the team, but they don't know that it takes more than 3 players to be successful. On the show, he didn't mention Rice, Griffin, or Taylor once, but he bragged about Odom like he had a gun to his head. Let Mgmt do their job, you play basketball, and no matter who you get, make it work. He called Odom an "established player", is his definition of an "established player" a guy who averaged 17 pts. a game, shoots 19% from the three point line, already had a season ending injury, and has gotten caught smoking dope? Odom is a bigger risk than Ming, he won't quit smoking pot, Ming probably doesn't even know what pot is.
How long do you think it will take him. Pop thinks 2-4 years. Most every news agency thinks 2-3 years, whats your take? Its very easy to determine how Ming will do defending in the NBA. Just look at Wang. Do you think Wang is soft? Wang & Ming are the best players in China. They have dominated the CBA on both ends of the court. Ming has publically stated that Wang is the better, more versatile, defender. So what is there to speculate. So if you want a general idea of Mings defensive skills, against NBA players, just see how Wang is doing.
Had Sabonis joined the Blazers in the 80's after being drafted, there is no doubt that Clyde would have more than just one ring on his hand. Arvydas was already a very effective center late in his basketball career, but prior to his numerous leg injuries, it is said that he was amazing, combining agility with strength and power. Most NBA historians believe Sabonis would have gone down as one of the best big men ever had he opted to join Portland after the draft.
This thread is Un-Freaking believable!!! Have none of you guys ever watched a show called Arliss??? Yes it's a comedy, just like this thread! But Arliss recalls in a humourous way, the EGOMANIA and STUPIDITY of both players and AGENTS!!!! I can't believe that after reading six pages of debate (and b****ing/whining from those without class), not a single person has mentioned that maybe Cat's AGENT suggested he say that Odom would be his choice!! Can't you just see Cat's agent (whose name I can't recall at the moment) doing the pre-interview with all the Jerks, ahem - Hosts on TBDSSE, and standing just off set as they all take the cheese like the greedy rats they are mad:!! As a PR-type, I can tell you that something as HUGE as a #1 pick would have management circling ALL wagons regarding the "party line", and more importantly, what NOT to do and say!!! That's the only reason that Cat started his statement with "Sorry Coach, but....". Agent says to Cat "What would do more for your future salary, an athletic three that can feed you the ball, or a 5 Project that will take 2-3 years to develop, if at all?" Cat says "Yeah man, you know, now that I 'think' about it...you're right!!: Having made this point, I would like to say that I'm having more and more doubts about Ming being the thing, and would like to get someone like an Odom along with the next best Big man (maybe Curry) that we can get to go along with him. I do think we have enough youth and inexperience, (and clearly too much immaturity ) on this team to take the risk of going with Ming at this point. I don't know all of the trade rules and possibilities out there, but sadly I bet that C.D. takes Ming for only one reason - $$$. Les is more concerned about putting butts in the seats of the new arena, and with the hype around Ming, the sales office will be able to B.S. more people into putting season tickets on their platinum cards than with any other pick or combination of picks... I say this because Championships win money, but when you KNOW your years away from one, then making money is the ONLY other priority that owners have!!!!
