ohhh. I have the Bird story that Magic liked to talk about. Bird used to say, "I'm going right; I'm going right," and he'd go right! Did that make him more effective? Did it get into the mind of his opponent to make him go left thinking it was a bluff...or maybe it would make them hesitate? Or do most professionals still stare at the waist and ignore everything else? Some bite on trash talk, but most of those defenders are fools. You don't let it change your normal game plan. Can you imagine if Harrington would have called time out and said to Isiah, "hey, Cuttino just told me they are going to him," we should collapse on him. (You know, like how coaches call time-out on the last play to see what inbounds defense the opponent is using.) Isiah would have said, "dude, just guard him close and don't fall for any trash talking." I think you are calling Harrington a fool, if you think he reacted differently to trash talking. <b>behad</b> that was funny....thanks for helping the cause of the Mobley Apologists from Rationalists takes... j/k rocketsbooster, thanks for the xmas greetings.
I'm sorry if I'm qualifying my opinion as the majority. That is not my intention, as I certainly reealize that there is a bunch who are more impreessed with KT'ss play this year. Second, while I am not trying to qualify my opinion, I do get the distinct feel that a lot of posters agree with me. Why? Beccause in the last week alone there have been a number of threads on the topic. You might consider all these mute as they may be started by suckologists, or whatever they are called nowadays, but even Jeff has recently started a threaad that complains about the black hole thaat is KT. It seems too mme (although I may be wrong), that most people responding in those threads agree with the intial observations and I generally look for a rebutee, refreshingly (actually) from you, to side with KT. In eeither case, I will stop qualifying my position. It is only my opinion and it was more addreessesd to oielpere to see if he saw at least some of the selfishness I see it KT's play. On the other hand, just as I misread the boards intention, sometimes you misread mine. How did EG come up at all in my original post? Where was it about KT vs. EG? That being said, why would I ccare about thee poll? My oppinion, which let me add emphasis to again, is only my opinion, is that no matter who else KT is on the floor with, he is, as Jeff accurately (I think) describes,, a balck hole offensively, solely worried about his stats (although sometimes he might be smart and realiize that he needs to maake it look like ti is for the teaam) and his production and wether or not he is starting. Forget about EG or Mo Taylor or anyone else. I am not excited with KT'seemingly improved play. That is it.
i haven't posted much in the past few weeks, simply because damnit, you're doing a damn fine job saying exactly what's been on my mind!!! pippendagimp 4 prez!
Ok I'm going to throw in my 0.02. What effect was Cat trying to achieve by telling Harrington that a play was going to be run for him? To me these reasons seem illogical:- - He thought Harrington would get scared and back off - He thought Harrington would get excited, overplay him and he would get a foul - He thought Harrington would tell someone else on the Pacers and they would double him so he could pass it off No the only thing that makes sense is that he wanted to get the ball, make the shot, and then be able to trash talk Harrington like Bird and say 'Hey sucka, I told you I was going to get the ball'. The difference was that Bird knew when he could beat his defender and what he could do. If you are on the court and someone does that then cant deliver all it does is make that person look like an idiot.
Behad, Harrington knew the ball was coming to Cuttino off the inbounds pass and that Cuttino wasn't going to do anything other than shoot it. Of course he can go left, or right, or stop n pop, but the fact is harrington knew he was getting the ball and he was going to eventually shoot it. Oilepere, Do you think this happens in isolated rare moments in the NBA? Yes. Everybody knows the Jordan of old or Reggies getting the shots in those situations anyways. Mobley surely is not comparable to Miller or Jordan. Plus he has a teamate who is just as capable in Steve Francis, who im sure the Pacers defense was gearing to stop as well. Would you still be arguing your point if he had made it? Yes, in so far as it was still a bone-headed move of overconfidence that just shows you his way of thinking, his one on three type play/mindset that really limits his effectivness. Do you think that Al harington would of been quoted if he had been beat? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think thats important though. Mobley warning a defender of his sole intentions though is slap in the face to the rest of his teamates.
agreed, my fault. Sometimes I start talking to someone and then finish in generalities. It is often a stream of consciousness, and I miss how one might read it, a lot. I was stating the arguments concerning how KT is a ballhog. That he can't pass, or used to but doesn't anymore, but everyone agreeing with the idea that KT doesn't pass to EG. I know you didn't say that...it was the voice of the "general concensus" that I was referring to. This "concensus" seems to have come out of left field rather rapidly...like in 3 games. Almost like it was invented, not discovered. I had some analysis written for Jeff's thread, and I said, "screw it" this will get read as me defending KT, Mobley and Rudy...which is not my intention. I just want to provide scout-esque comments like KT and EG are a skip pass away from each other, so how does them not passing to each other mean squat. The KT is selfishly not letting EG get the ball to prop his own stats is just way too far out in left field right now for a response...not to say Jeff concluded that or anything.
- thats always refreshing I see many positives on this team and still think they can be (probably next season now) a 4-8 seed playoff teamm that cann compete with the 1-4 teaams (Sacramento exlcuded...they suck against them) on a given night, and possibly in a given series. On the other hand, to deny the fact that a lot of basics are being completely ignored would be idiotic. If these aspects of the game arennt improved upon first and foremost, their record will never get much better than what it was lasst year, and while Ill keep saying it and beleeiving it, I dont know how long the others in the pub will agree with me when I say - they'll be good next year.
Could be an interesting read. Amazingly, despite my tirade of seeimingly negative KT posts, I would actually love to keep hhim as a bench player in the future. Like Mobley, he used to be a great sparkplug off the bench and (while I think it is for selfish reasons) he has been developing some very good skills over the last few years. I am alwso of the opinion that he would make a better small forward the pwer forward (as his game seems more like a jumpshot, slash and drive, get a few tipins, etc).
heycrispeecritter, you are failing to recognize (or possibly, accept) a simple fact: that most of the posters in here are not, were not, and never probably will be "ball players". i don't mean nba. i mean in the street form of the word. talking trash occurs everywhere. harrington posted that to throw darts at mobley. how do we know that steve didn't tell his defender the same thing??? it would be just as - if not moreso - believable.
Finally, the thread author speaks. Please try...."the only thing that makes sense" <b>to you.</b> Trash talking is an extension of the game. A lot of it has no meaning and no effect. Calling it "logical" or "illogical" is not consistent with my experience is using trash talking or responding to it. It never changed my game plan. So your explanation is not "the only thing that makes sense." Further, the play was called for Mobley...so he didn't have to "<i>want to get the ball.</i>" The play was for Mobley to shoot...if they don't leave Francis who was the leading decoy coming around the picket fence that Mobley followed. So of course he better be thinking he is going to "<i>make the shot</i>" if the main option is for him to shoot or pass to Francis spotting for a 3. As for, "<i>and then be able to trash talk Harrington.</i>" So that would effect the outcome, 'eh? To me, you are just saying you don't like (or understand) the game of trash talking unless superstars do it. It can be a friendly extension of the game. It is not a mean thing, necessarily. It isn't. It is not necessarily a lack of respect or an intimidation game. It is what they do. Have you never heard Garnett say how he likes to jaw with Francis and Mobley? Kobe loves to jaw with Mobley. Who knows what they say...and does it have *any* effect. They are friends. Call it a different culture; call it a game you don't like; but I'd hesitate to attach your own sensibilities and logic to it to read what is in someone's mind.
verse, hehe. Yep. I was a whisperer. Nobody heard my intimidation game except the man I was guarding. Most guys just let it go in one ear and out the other, and laugh about it later. Harrington got his laugh in.
Trash talking within the game is cool, it's an extension of passion for the game. But that wasn't just trash talking. To warn a guy with 7 seconds or so on the clock that your getting the ball and shooting is Rucker park league crap. Thats not general trash talking, imo. What that is is being so self absorbed to the point ones vision becomes really cloudy and one makes statements to his opponent that are totally self- defeating. That was not trash talk at all, it was more in line with that statement that Kenyon Martin made to Jordan about his back being hurt. Just stupid and foolish. This certainly doesn't take away from Mobleys value to this team though. Im just speaking about the situation that occured, not his general game so lets not categorize me into any Mobley rationalist or apologist or playa hata groupings.
4 conf championships and 2 league 'ships in a 15yr span. Les Alex basically inherited the first league championship team. CD was only made GM after that Bald Weinhauer dude was pushed out, in '96 I believe. The current Front Office is NOT the only front office responsible for the above-referenced 'ships. I believe Bill Berry also played a large role in player decisions, but was pushed out after the rift concerning whether to trade Dream to Toronto a coulple summers back.
And here lies the difference in our basketball experience. I think Rucker Park league "crap" is great and fun. It is "general trash talking." What do you call "general trash talking then?" [<b>Cousin Billy</b>] "Hey, Uncle Joe, your shoe is untied....<i>clank</i>, made you look, sucka." [<b>Uncle Joe</b>] "No you didn't; you clanked it Cousin Billy, and your momma can eat my grits." [<b>Cousin Billy</b>] "You mean <i>our</i> momma, Uncle Joe. You married momma's sister, and I married her other sister's daughter, remember." I don't think there exists another level of NBA trash talking to quantify here unless you allow one to exist. Unless you want to invent one explicitly for Mobley and Recker Park playas who you don't know. Your conclusions can be right, but probably only in a different experience, imo. If a pitcher tells a batter he is going to throw him only strikes, is that bad? Mobley said his was going to shoot/score...Like I say, if you think it helped Harrington, I think you are calling Harrington a fool for being susceptible to trash talk, like the batter that will sit on fastballs, because the pitcher told him. Or the nose guard that falls for a quarterback saying that the count is on "3."
I don't think you understand. Let me explain: The trash talks thats within the game is completly seperate from what Mobley did. I hope you'll see this. Theres 7 or so seconds left on the clock, we're down, and we have one posession to succeed, so Mobley comes out of a huddle, right, get this crispee, he warns the guy who has no idea what the play is that he's getting the ball and he's going to freaking shoot it! That to me billy bob, is not your general trash talk. That is somebody who is so self absorbed with over confidence that he thinks he can get away with shooting himself in the foot by giving boastful remarks to his opponent about his inevitable intentions of shooting the ball. Boy, I really bet Rudy and his teammates thought that was considerate, especially considering they called a timeout and designed the play in a closed huddle.
As someone that has played a lot of basketball I feel that just becuase you tell someone what your'e going to do doesnt mean its actually trash talk. Confidence is what got Mobley to the NBA...He has the ability to break down pretty much anybody in the league. He knows it, we know it and so does Harrington. The only difference here is that Harrington took what mobley said on the court and put it in the media. This stuff happens all the time...Especially with young athletes making tons of loot that feel that they have nothing to loose. By the way, this post doesn't mean that I agree with what he did. That's not suppossed to be going on when you're team has one of the worst loosing records in the league.
Popeye is quite right that Canadians tend to look for the positives, look at the big picture, and celebrate progress where we find it. Let's face it, about the only place we dominate on the world sports scene is hockey, so we have to find things to cheer about somewhere. This attitude is a lot more fun than the whinny sports fan approach. Unbridled homerism gets to be tedious too, but nothing annoys me more than the incessant whiner, be it from a fan of a sports commentator. I should qualify my first comment. Eastern and Western Canadian sports fans are fun to be around. Central Canada, especially Toronto, has a lot of whiners and wannabes in their media and fans. Must be something in the water.
crispee, so are you saying its just trash talk no problem. Everytime a player has a play drawn up for him you wouldnt want him to tell the opposing team. I dont see how you can say that is ok.
What is there not to understand? If the quarterback tells the nose guard it is a running play straight up his nose on the count of "3," does the nose guard react differently. If Eisenhower tells Hitler that we are hitting Normandy on June 6th, does Rommel insist on pulling his Panzer divisions out of their Calais defenses. If you don't understand trash talking, take solace in this: If Harrington did gain an advantage to stop Mobley's fadeaway, next time Mobley can say the same thing as a bluff and do a head fake for a foul. piece o cake. Unless of course Harrington reads it as a bluff next time and doesn't jump. But then, Mobley can actually take the shot if Harrington thinks he's bluffing. ...and I really do have the Ace of Spades. sucka!
