but mobley is a scorer/shooter who can get in the running game (mobley can finish a fast break very well) and add some defense. i would argue mobley is better on defense than artest is on offense. it's just that artest is better on defense than mobley is on offense. considering jvg's propensity for D and artest maybe being crazy/disruptive/not already knowing the team, i'll just stick with cuttino. incidentally, in the yahoo fantasy league predraft rankings, guess who are #49 and #50.
I think MacBeth had the best post. Of course I want Ron Artest. Really, at any price, save Francis and Ming. He's a perfect complement so long as JVG is coach. I'll make other trades later to sort out the trash left over, if necessary. But for me, Cuttino for Artest straight up with Utah handling the BYC is a godsend just sitting there waiting for us to get religion. Yao EG Artest JJ Francis That's a mean lean, fightin' machine that demands respect. Now just change one piece. Yao EG JJ Cuttino Francis No one respects that. You just let them self destruct. Bait the bad shot, you know it's coming. And drive at will.
A) My point wasn't that Artest is a superior running game player than Cat, although that is a defensible position...my point is to find a top defender who can also add offense in various ways is indicative of his superior value. In Cat you get what you get in most above average smaller sg's: good not great shooter, decent defender, etc. His 1st step, his greatest attribute, is not enough to make him a clearly superior shooting guard. Artest is clearly a superior small forward. There are many more shooting guards a tier or two above Cat than there are above Artest. B) No way is Mobley better on defense than Artest is on offense, and certainly not in a comparative way. Offensively, going just on scoring, Cuttino ranked 13th ( according to ESPN positional rankings) among shooting guards. Artest also ranked 13th, among small forwards. Cuttino averaged 2 more ppg, ( 17.5 to 15.5 ), but also took almost 2 and a half more shots per game ( 14.6 to 12.2). But I think it's safe to give Cat the edge, in that his shooting % was marginally better, and he has had better seasons, whereas Artest is still developing. Edge to Cuttino, but not as significant as you seem to think. Add to that the fact that Artest contributes more offensive rebounds, and causes more fast breaks ( 2nd in the league in steals/game)...and giving Cat the edge isn't the slam dunk you imply. Defensivley, Artest is considered by most the best at his position. At shooting guard, Cat ranks behind several players. This is subjective, of course, but I have never heard Mobley mentioned among the better defensive shooting guards, and until he improved last year he was considered a liability on that end. Artest is consistently mentioned as among the best, if not the best defensive forwards in the game. Not even close. Certainly much more of a gap then between his and Cat's offense. Add to all that the age of each player...it's a no brainer dunk, IMO.
No edit....the fantasy draft angle, I failed to mention, reaffimrs my point, in that it is almost entirely based on offense, which is Cat's advantage, and almost ignores Artest's forte, defense. The fact that such a weighted measurement has them neck and neck sort of backs up what I was saying re: the not all that significant difference between them offensively, relative to their positions.
first off, i believe i said artest had the higher value. i just said it wasn't enough to factor out the crazy and moving to a new team thing for me. the age is definitely nice, 5 year difference is it, but cuttino isn't exactly creakin yet and artest has been around long enough that he's used up at least a sizable portion of his potential, if not damn near all of it. i guess you just like artest more than me. as for the fantasy comment, i was just pointing out it's not as crazy as people seem to think that they are close together. fantasy takes into account steals and then blocks and rebounds (which the taller player should get) and as far as assists, neither sg's nor sf's should get a lot. cuttino gets fg% and ft% and points which are pretty important regardless of position. so while it doesn't take into account artest's full defensive presence, it doesn't exactly ignore him for cat-strong stats. just pointing out that we ain't throwing in eg or the exception to make up the difference. and of course if i'm gm, i'm not making the trade anyway, though i think most current gm's would, thus my belief artest has more value than mobley and that he's slightly the better overall player. respond to macbeth and now i'm writing almost as much as macbeth. i need some sleep.
I don't think anybody so far has mentioned that this argument is purely academic because Artest is a base year player until July 1, 2004.
We could trade for Artest if a third team brokers the deal. Utah owes us a favor. See Larry Coon's FAQ item 74 on real gm. We can use the trade exception. See FAQ 68. Now that we have the exception, the BYC is not a big problem. This deal could get done.
Yes, but that would send the Rockets back into luxury tax land -- something Les Alexander obviously is loathe to do.
Someone mentioned extending Eddie, which we haven't done yet. But we've had Eggie since....when? Summer 2001? So isn't he eligible for the extension next year? Help me out on this, it's early in the morning. As far as Mobley for Artest, yeah, I'd do that. I think we need a little more size and defense for the 2/3.
Ron Artest last night received a technical for faking to throw the ball at the referee. When pulled from the game by Rick Carlisle, Artest went and had a seat, not on the bench, but in a normal spectator seat. Not sure why some of you want this guy. I doubt half of you have even seen him play - he's not that great.
I would trade Cat for Artest. Artest can play efficently without the ball. That is his greatest asset. He is Rodman with some offensive game.
How about getting your story straight before you start posting nonsense. link http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/6/081775-6506-039.html
Yeah...Artest apologized! He was just playing around.. He says the ref and Carlisle haven't seen ball tricks like that..haha... "Artest took issue with his actions causing such a backlash. "If I'm going to be taken out for stuff like that I'd rather not be in the game," he said. "I'd rather be with another team. I apologized to the ref and it was that simple. That's all it was."" He would rather be with another team!
I to like hottoddie's proposal. Not to complicated one but the simple Cato for Artest. The guy is a headcase, one that we can take on and make more of than indy can. They need a center, Polard will not cut it. Cato is a Top 3 center in the East. Indy has guys that can replace Artest, we have no one like it, so his inherent risk does not undermine his positive impact. We might need to throw in a pick or cash option or whatever. This only works if Indy is sick of Artest and really need Cato. Francis Mobley Artest Griffin Ming
The kid is a ticking time bomb! Believe he is not suit for our cause, maybe another 3 to 5 years, things will start lighten up for him.
Alright genius, how about we take a look at the article then? Obviously I didn't get the exact details right, but any idiot should be able to understand the point I was trying to make - that Artest's skills are not enough to offset his behavior. The author agrees with me. Not hard to understand, he condemns Artest's behavior. So I described a minor detail wrong, big deal, you get my point. On the replay it looked like he faked a throw. What difference does it make? His coach didn't like the action either. And this makes it ok? Steve used to slap the backboard after dunks and get T's and half the board called him immature because of it. Carlisle agrees. So you guys want to trade for a guy who wants to be traded because his coach punished him for being a child? Right. The hypocrisy on this board is intolerable. If Steve Francis or Cuttino Mobley even breathe the wrong way, this entire board wants him gone, yet you welcome Artest with open arms? By the way egn, how about you read a post before you spew off with your nonsense. Moron.
