Carve up the middle East !!!

Dakota,

I was under the impression that Bin Laden's "headquarters" were in a place dubbed "Turkministan". He may have places he hides in other countries, but that's his base for operations.

Turkministan is NOT a country, but rather a theocracy in between Russia and Turkey I believe.

I know it's wrong to assume that this was the work of Bin Laden, but he is a primary candidate, so what would you do if he was responsible? Would you still unleash hell on the middle east? I think it's a bad idea what you're proposing, no matter how you look at it....

Thanks for the kind words DanL.

One of my cousins may have been a stewardess on one of the planes that crashed into the towers, although it's not likely.......

 

DaDakota,
When you use the statements like take out a country. It is hard to miss the fact that the countries you mentioned are predominantly Islamic.

Yes. I am concerned because I was born in Pakistan. But I was raised in this great country since I was two. I am proud to be a US Citizen and proud of this country. But this country is made up of more than just one belief. So when you start talking about taking out a country to me that is sterotyping the people in that country.

I think communication is a good thing. Remember we are usually scared of things we know little about.

Ottomon,
You said it yourself. The key word being implied. The media does not come out and say Catholic IRA. They just say IRA Bombers. To me that is completely different when you state Islamic terrorists.

 

I'm sorry I must have missed something DaDakota and Hayes I must have been reading something else.

 

Actually, you are incorrect. There is no country that has an 'inherent hatred of the United States.' And Japan certainly had less love for us than Iraq. Pick up a book on WWII and you'll learn something. Plus, Japan is the perfect example. They were a society was under the thumb of a single elite group that pushed the country into conflict, even though that was not particularly consistent with what the Japanese people wanted. However, we removed that elite group and the rest is history. The parallel with Iraq is especially relevant since you'll not find many sources that say Saddam rules by anything but fear and violent purges. Why do you think so many Iraquis DID NOT WANT TO GO BACK TO IRAQ after they surrendered during the Gulf War. Not because they had sooooo much love for Saddam. Remove Saddam and his top officials and you'd give a government that had no 'inherent' reason to hate the US.

No, I don't think I would accept that. But I know I wouldn't go blow up 50,000 Germans watching a soccer game in Olympic Stadium.

Well, it happened in Egypt. It is happening with Syria. We haven't bombed the hell out of Syria in case you are getting confused.

Blah Blah Blah. You also seem to believe there is one homogenous American hating population in each of these countries. Totally ridiculous. The ones that do care one way or the other think about the horrors their own governments perpetrate against them before they think of the US. The point is that most of the people would not choose the government that is currently in power, especially in Iraq. The point is that if the current regime was removed there would be room for a new government to take place. If they got that chance there is not a reason the government would be 'inherently' anti-American.

 

You claim to actually KNOW this??!!?

What planet are you on? Who do you think is responsible for this anti-American sentiment? THE GOVERNMENTS OF THESE COUNTRIES ARE!!! The people there do not live in a free state! Their respective governments control what the people read, see, and hear. It is well known that in Iran, for example, where the current Shah has been trying for years to establish better relations with the West, has met nothing but opposition from Extremists in his own government. After WWII, there were many who wanted complete destruction of the Japanese people, including the execution of Emperor Hirohito. We didn't do this. Instead we rebuilt their government. I doubt you would find any in Japan today who resent us for doing this.

You sound incredibly unAmerican in your support for these terrorist-harboring nations.

 

And how do you go along in "taking out" a government without invading them. You have already imposed economic sanctions on these countries and their people are suffering not the governments. So explain how you would go and "carve out the Middle East" without invading them?

 

For the people who don't think this the US should "overreact" or that "they just blew up a few buildings", the U.S. has said the who ever did this "Officially declared war", and to show you how serious this is, Bush, Chaney, and the other high ranking government figures have been separated into different area as if this were a war or nuclear war. This is serious stuff. Somebody's going to pay in more way then they can believe.

 

Now Many People Here might see me as the Bad Guy, But I am a realist and all I have ever stressed is getting to root of a problem and not just cutting off branches that will grow back.

With that Being said I 100% agree with DaDakota that not only should the individuals responsible be hunted down, but any governements that aided should be held responsible. The US has to flex its muscles and take out EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL involved in this attack.
This could not have been done without an intensely sophisticated network and a boatload of money even beyond what Osama Bin Ladin himself could muster.

You destroy the branches that were involved with the attack, then you eliminate the problem. The Question is why does Osama Bin Laden (a media demonized figure) and others like him hate America?? What causes an individual like you and me to get so frustrated to lose their mind and blind themselves into thinking that paradise is at the end of death?

I feel the United States needs to take a worldly view in regards to its foreign policy and limit its alliances with oppresive governements. And as a poster stated, U.S. economic sanctions on Iraq, Iran and Libya have crippled the economies.

What does any individual want in life: to live, love , marry , have children, raise a family.......its taken for granted by us when in these nations because of US sponsored embargo's these people are starving, and are economically and socially destroyed.

Must we remember that the reason Hitler and the Nazi party came to power in Germany was because of economic depravity in post WWI germany. Have we not learned anything from our past mistakes in Human history??

If a person cannot work, their family is sick and starving, or in Palestine they are being jailed, tortured and thrown off their only possession: land, they will try to lash out at those responsible for their situation.

I love my country but I fear the actions of our government in terms of Middle East Policy and its Support of a separtist state that oppresses others based on their race will not put an end to the roots of the problems that we saw today. You can kill Osama Bin Laden, Afghanistan, the Taliban, Saddam Hussein, and anyone else.....but as long as people are oppressed by US foreign policy then this will not end anytime soon. Oppression causes frustration, anger and insanity which leads to events that we see like today.
Reading opinions that don't agree with mine still makes me happy that this world is not indifferent to tragedy.

God bless everyone that is risking their lives to help those in need and God bless the families of the victims and God bless you all for being here and actually caring enough to voice your opinion about what is happening and about our undying love for this country we call America.

 

Who the hell is diminishing the horror of this? I haven't heard anyone believe that this isn't a HUGE deal. But I, and others, do believe it's wrong to blame an entire group of people for something they're not involved in and don't want either.

 

I hope no one sees you as a 'Bad Guy.' I think we should all respect each others opinions, whether or not we believe in US support for Israel.

 

Hayes,

Thank you very much, it swells me with pride to have people that care as much about this country as I do. Its Ironic, i have never posted more than 1 time a day for the last three years that I have been viewing Clutchcity, and today I went off!!!

It has truly been a pleasure discussing today's events with you and I respect and believe many of the opinions you have and discussions such as this by educated people who care about this country will keep our nation strong.

 

Before deciding that the superpowers of the world, lead by the U.S., should take over another part of the world and divide it up, because they have the military might to do so, ask yourself one question....why did the original Americans revolt in the first place? Wasn't it in opposition of a super-power excercising it's military might in another part of the world because it had the power to do so? Wasn't it " Right over might." ? Has might become right merely because the shoe is on the other foot?

Aren't you afraid of your own jingoistic suggestion, that you are, if you think this way, becoming what you rebelled against in the first place? Are those with military power destined to abuse it? To assume that the entire Middle East is responsible for this atrocity, to justify countless more deaths because of that blanket assumption, and to conclude that this sort of action (dividing the Middle East) is acceptable because America has the power to do it... what were the Colonials' arguments with King George again?

 

This seems to me to be more a case of the fact that everyone knows who the IRA is. When Israelies and Palastinians fight they aren't refered to as 'jews and islamic' respectively because everyone knows that that is implied. If you tell me 'Talaban' or 'PLO' I know those too. I, however, could not differentiate the names of the various other groups, however. If you told me whatever the name of Bin Ladden's group is, I wouldn't know it. SO, they tell me what the group ostensably represents. If you ask Bin Ladden what group he represents, what do you think he'd respond? I would believe he would say he does it for Allah.

Another example: I saw 'The Longest Day' a couple of days ago. When they introduced the 'OSS' they explained what the initials stood for, becuase it isn't common knowledge what the OSS was. BUT, when people refer to the CIA, who succeeded the OSS, they don't explain what it is because it is assumeed everyone knows. Same goes for KGB and NKVD.

 

I would like to point out that I am not defending DaDakota's position, I only wish to defend him from the crys of racicism. He simply listed off several countries that sponsor or have sponsored terrorism reciently. They all happened to be 'Islamic' countries. He didn't refer to them in any way derogatory to Islam.

It is my contention , 34, that you were preped to look for racisim before reading the comments, and therefore read something into them that fit, yet wasn't there.