Carve up the middle East !!!

Dream34. Put down the crack pipe. Nobody said anything about ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing is moving to wipe an ethic group. Who said anything about that? I sure didn't. I don't believe DaDakota did either, although I'll reconsider if you'd care to point it out. If we rearrange the face of the government or hell, even if we rearrange the boundaries of a country, that doesn't have anything to do with ethnic cleansing. In fact, the boundaries in the Middle East are artificially constructed lines put in place without regard to ethnic groups in the 40s. 'Many muslims are US citizens.' Yeah, so what? I don't have a problem with any religion in particular. I think they're ALL silly, and the ALL have fanatics. I don't like fanatics no matter what religion they claim. They are dangerous. Countries that harbor fanatics should be put on notice period. Again there is NO LINK between what I've said and ethnic cleansing.

 

Actualy on the news that I listen to, they are refered to as IRA terrorists or IRA bombers. This implicitly states their position as being Catholic. Perhaps you should consider changing the news you listen to.

 

By the way, I'm not accusing anyone of wanting ethnic cleansing. I just want to avoid stereotypes. Don't want anyone to think otherwise. I understand how you feel. My first reaction after shock and sorrow (and it's still there somewhat) was, "I want these bastards dead."

 

I just lost total respect for DaDakota. What happened today was one of the worst acts of terrorism that we in the U.S. have ever seen. Yet there have been terrorist acts that have occured throughout the history of time and we have to keep that in mind. This is not the act of a rogue country this is an act of a fanatical group. I agree 100% that we should take out those involved in the scheme but to say that we should "Carve up the Middle East" is the type of ignorant thinking that got the world into this amount of hatred in the first place. How come when Oklahoma city occured no one said we should carve up the rural U.S. because its full of anti-government white people? Keep your facsist statements to your damn self. Instead of thinking of those poor people that passed away your saying we should kill more innocent people to take revenge.

 

im pissed off like the rest of you, thankfully no one in my family was hurt. I want whomever did this captured and dead, if its Bin laden and his followers so be it. Now I dont want to wipe out the middle east of its muslim population, because I dont believe a few bad apples should spoil it for anyone, but if afghanistan refuses to hand over bin laden or if i doesnt turn out be him the nation holding that particular person/s, we will have to use our superior military power and launch a full scale invasion. Lastly, my prayers go out to all the victims of this unfathomable tragedy and i dont want ethnic cleansing but we cant afford to live in fear that terrorists can be bred anywhere and strike at an time, especially when were most vulnerable

 

In the 80s I would definitely have put Syria on a 'state sponsered terrorism' list, and maybe Egypt. As it is I believe both have stopped the state sponsored part of that at least, and so I would not have any reason to take action against them. Pakistan if it is involved with Bin Laden should also be included.

I am not responsible for the media creating a false image of Muslims as terrorists. I don't know why they don't refer to the IRA as Christian terrorists, although they do refer to them as Catholic terrorists. It could be that they don't ANNOUNCE TO THE WORLD A HOLY WAR AGAINST THE WHOLE WESTERN SIDE OF THE PLANET. (just guessing) I'm not doing anything to further that stereotype. I am saying if there is a group of Islamic fundamentalists (Hamas/binLaden/Taliban) are responsible they should be taken care of, permanently. I think they should take care of the IRA, the Skinheads, the Basques, or that Japanese Cult (subway attack a few years ago), or the Red Brigade, or whoever the same way the SAS does it in Britain. Swiftly and deadly. That doesn't have anything to do with your religion or your ethnicity.

 

scarface: let's not turn against each other right now, either. Strong reactions are natural. DaDakota might (or might not) feel differently tomorrow.

I don't like what he said either. But watching that horrible cloud of dust on the tv... I can't help but thinking anytype of hatred is wrong.

 

many times after suicide bombers here in Israel we hear people say "kill all those arabs" but then we remind ourselves that back then in the mid 30's ,a man named Adolf Hitler said "Carve up the Jews".
so please leave those ethnic cleaning talks out of the discussion.

Dan Lederman

 

DaDakota:

But freedom of speech IS beginning to be implemented in Iran. IN most places, slow progress is being made.

Their President, Khatami, wants improved relations with the West, free elections, and the end of the theocracy. He wanted to normalize relations, but the US refused.

Please don't make comments like that when you don't KNOW.

 

DaDakota:

I was just confused by your repeated mentioning of Iran, when it's probably the best example of a place that's trying to Democratize.

Once again, I don't want to offend you or think I mean anything bad.

 

<B>Do you study history at all?

Why ? you ask?

Because we did take over Germany, Italy, and Japan in WW2, and installed governments that are successful and friendly to us to this day. </B>

Actually, if you had studied history at all, you'd know that the people in all of these countries had no inherent hatred of the United States. The situations are not comparable.

Imagine, instead, that Hitler conquered the US and installed a pro-German government here. Do you think the people would have simply accepted it? Would you have done so?

Many of these governments have done an excellent job of making American into both a religious and political enemy. America eliminating a people's government is not going to help counteract that image.

<B>Guess what? In Iraq, or Iran, Libya, or in Afghanastan, they don't have that ability. </B>

You actually believe that? Wow.

<B>I have so I'm not just making this up. You haven't or you wouldn't being saying this stuff. Do you think Saddam would get elected in a free election? Not from everything and anything I've seen.</B>

In an election between Saddam and a pro-America government, , yes, Saddam would get reelected. Libya's government would get reelected too. So would Syria's. There is a great deal of anti-US sentiment in those countries (bombing the hell out of them does that, you know), and a pro-America government isn't going to work, no matter how much you delusion yourself into thinking everyone will suddenly change decades of beliefs.

<B>AND I might add that since you believe the US can't make policies for governments, why don't you shut up about Israel, since we obviously can't/shouldn't do anything about it (according to you).</B>

Do you have to actually misrepresent people's statements to try to make your argument work? That says more about the quality of your argument than anything else. I said you can't go install a government of your choice in a country that hates you. You made up the part about not being able to do anything else.

 

Hmmmm....because that makes no sense? Because the local and state governments are not hiding or supporting white extremist? If they were you could be damn sure the Federal government would quickly push those people out of power.

Total misreading of what DaDakota is saying. He never says 'kill innocent people.' Why are you just making this up?

 

What you forget is by entering foreign soil you are in fact killing innocent people. Say for example the United States becomes a totallitarian state and we all hate the new government and want freedom, now say that Iraq becomes a Democratic country and enters our land and says they will free the U.S. from our oppresive leaders. What do you do? I know damn well more than half of you would defend your country because damnit this is OUR country not theirs. I'll be damned if someone comes into the U.S. and tries to take it over without a fight. You think we are the only country that has national pride???????? Millions of people would die because they would be defending THEIR countries from invaders.

I'm all for strategic bombings of Afghanistan until they reveal what they know of the whereabouts of Bin Laden if it is proven he was behind this heinous attack, but to invade a country simply because they harbour terrorists that have nothing to do with todays acts would simply be a hypocritical action. If these countries are proven to be involved with todays acts then that changes things, but until then what some people said in this thread is simply unthinkable.

 

Shanna said the opposite. In Iraq, I'm certain that the US is hated. After all, we've boycotted and bombed them for over a decade now. Maybe if we'd removed Saddam in the beginning it would have worked, but by now, the people support him more than ever.

Not even a dictator can sustain power forever without some consent of the people. Right now, Saddam is using the US as a propped-up-enemy to justify his regime.

Would they hate us in a vacuum? No. But they do because of the context of their lives.