Anybody who thinks that eliminating and re-maping contries wholesale would be a good idea needs to take a hard look at both the history of Yugoslavia, and the history of Israel. Though it has been tried with the best of intentions, every time it only serves to create a proverbial petri dish full of aagar to act as a stable growth medium for the disease of ethnic hate. It doesn't work.
<B>What is crazy is that governments are openly harboring terrorists. We can not allow that to happen.</B> It's time to destroy the US government then, also. You do realize that we harbor terrorists also, right? We have many individuals who support and fund renegade and illegal terrorist operations in countries we dislike -- Iraq, Iran, etc. What is so different about us harboring these people? <B>I would rather take out their governments, establish a new one that is friendly to ours, and then let the people see that the United States is not full of evil people that hate everyone.</B> The US doesn't get to make world policy. You can't go and eliminate other governments and expect the world to just go along with it and suddenly agree with US policy. If Iraq managed to take over the US government and install one friendly to Iraq, would you just say "ok, that's cool with me"??? People want self-rule -- going in and establishing a US-friendly government when the citizens don't like the US is *not* self-rule, and it's never going to work unless you plan to bring back slavery and enslave all these people. The only way to get real change is internally -- for example, the slow change of Iran being controled by extremists to progressive moderates.
<B>I am talking about Freeing the muslim people from their oppressive governments, not exterminating them. </B> What happens if those people <I>like</i> their governments and don't care to be freed?
You say you want to free muslims from their oppressive governments for the better of the citizens in that country. So now you are telling me that the American goverment which is run by predominantly non-muslims is going to go into a country. Wipe out the existing government and put in a new one. Who might I ask will run this new government. Christians, Jews, Hindus??? For some strange reason the people in these muslim countries may have a problem with that. DaDakota said the following in his original post: "I would call the Russian leader, call the Chinese leader, and say, listen we are going to take over the middle east. Russia, you can have this section, China, you can have this section, and Britain/US will take this section. The time of being morally eqcuivalent(sp?) is over. It is time to act. I would contact the Government of Afganastan, and tell them they have 48 hours to hand over Bin Laden, if he is not handed over, we will attack with a fury never before seen on this planet. I REFUSE to live in fear, and those that would have us be in fear, do not deserve to live. I would take out Libya, I would take out Iraq, Iran, and all the other little pissant countries that are against democracy. " To me naming a list of countries which are mostly Islamic and than "to take them out" seems like a clear definition of ethnic cleansing. I am not sure what I missed. That is what pisses me off.
The Japanese already did this in the 80s, but luckily most of them took a bath in the real estate downturn. The US has been the number one power to pressure Israel into making concessions on the West Bank. So stop broadcasting this gross exaggeration that we give unwavering support to Israel at the expense of the Palestineans. Just not true. Arafat would not be in power with actual land to sit on without US pressure for peace in the Middle East. We are an oppressive state (most people in prison). China, Russia, India, the UK, France, Germany, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Ethiopia, Liberia, South Africa, Morocco, Libya, Vietnam, Australia, and every other country out there has a population that is not getting equal treatment. That is a fact. Pick a country and I guarantee the oppressed exist. So what justifies terrorism? Nada. Nothing. If you think they are justified or that they 'have cause' if you want to continue being willy nilly about the word 'justify,' then why shouldn't every other oppressed minority group start blowing **** up? Irrevocably, irretrievably, unmistakably...we must show this is not the way. This is not justified. Its not understandable. It is not wise or prudent and MOST DEFINITELY NOT EFFECTIVE.
Shanna, The strong DO get to make policy, the WINNERS do get to write the histories. We ARE the strong, and we have had war declared against our people. It is time to act in a way that leaves NO ROOM for negotiation, it is our way or the highway. If you don't like it TOUGH !!! Peace is the ultimate goal, and it was NOT our government that did these attacks. Is our government innocent or perfect? No, far from it, but we do not OPENLY harbor terrorists such as Libya, or Afganastan, and if we have the ability to take down those governments, then I say do it. Ask yourself this, do you think they would do it to us if they had the chance? You bet they would. We can not sit back and be a punching bag, someone hits you with a haymaker like this, you hit them back with 10 times the force. DaDakota
I seriously doubt the Kurds like Hussain. I doubt the women in Afghanistan like the Taliban. I doubt the regular everyday population of Iraq likes Hussain. You are being extremely naive to assume that because someone is in power that the people love them.
Dream, Those are the 3 super powers, that is why I mentioned them. I certainly do not condone taking out Turkey, Saudi, or any other country that has a peaceful stance. Think of it this way, terrorists need time to plan and to train, and if there is no where on the earth they can do this, then it is much harder for them to act. Now, there are some governments that have declared war on the US, by harboring Terrorirsts. If those governments CHOOSE to harbor and help those terrorists, then they essentially are condoning these attacks. We can not allow that to happen, and as long as we have the means to stop it we should. This is war, and we should fight this one to win. DaDakota
Exactly. It is unfortunate that most Muslim countries are ruled by extremist regimes. I'm sick and damn tired of us and the rest of the world pandering to these terrorist-harboring nations. Peaceful, non-extremist Muslims should be pissed as well. These people and countries are further tarnishing the image Islam. DaDakota's suggestion is what should happen. Give them 48 hours to hand over the motherf*ckers or they're done. End of story.
<B>Is our government innocent or perfect? No, far from it, but we do not OPENLY harbor terrorists such as Libya, or Afganastan, and if we have the ability to take down those governments, then I say do it. </B> Actually, yes we do. We just don't call them terrorists because they support causes America believes in. <B>Ask yourself this, do you think they would do it to us if they had the chance? You bet they would. </B> I'm sure they would. They also commit terrorist attacks and go around killing people for the hell of it. Does that make it right? <B>The strong DO get to make policy, the WINNERS do get to write the histories. </B> The strong are only strong if they have the support of their people. You go try to install a US-friendly government in a non-US friendly country and the citizens will hate the US even more, and an anti-US leader will simply be reelected / take over, more powerful than ever. Nations don't have the power to go in and change the internal beliefs of another nation's people. If you actually believe we have this capability, you're deluding yourself. No government will survive without the support of its people, and your "solution" alienates the people.
<B>You are being extremely naive to assume that because someone is in power that the people love them.</B> You're being very naive to believe that if we don't like a government's policies, their people must not either.
DaDakota and Hayestreet, You both said no one in here is talking about ethnic cleansing. I provided you a clear cut example of ethnic cleansing stated by DaDakota. Care to respond to how this is not ethnic cleansing??? DaDakota and Hayestreet, I pray to god people like you are not running our country. You say WE are the strong ones. "We" meaning the United States. The last time I checked the United States was made up of more than just Christians, Jews and Hindus. Many muslims are US Citizens. Sorry if that is a problem. But as a US citizen and muslim you are damn straight that WE would have a problem with your thought process.
Shanna, Do you study history at all? Why ? you ask? Because we did take over Germany, Italy, and Japan in WW2, and installed governments that are successful and friendly to us to this day. We learned a lot from WWI and the horrible sanctions we put on Germany gave them more reason to hate the victors, why do you think we rebult countries that we had defeated, and then GAVE them back their sovereignty? This is what we should do here. If you talk to most people in the middle east, the average Joe has the same concerns that we have over here. A healthy and happy life, with their children growing up safe and have the chance to have a better life then the parents did. Guess what? In Iraq, or Iran, Libya, or in Afghanastan, they don't have that ability. The military controls too much power to be overthrown, even if the man on the street wants to do that. I say it is time to take those governments down, and then let the people realize that it was the LIES that THEIR government was telling, and not the evil America that was the cause of their impoverished state. It worked before, it will work again. DaDakota
I think you should read a little bit about the countries you are talking about. I have so I'm not just making this up. You haven't or you wouldn't being saying this stuff. Do you think Saddam would get elected in a free election? Not from everything and anything I've seen. AND I might add that since you believe the US can't make policies for governments, why don't you shut up about Israel, since we obviously can't/shouldn't do anything about it (according to you).
Notice, however, that Egypt isn't on that list, nor Saudi Arabia, nor Kuwait, nor Jordan, nor Morocco, nor Tunisia, nor Quatar, nor Turkey, nor many others. In other words, say I get into a fight with two african-americans and beat the crap out of them. Just because I beat up to black guys, doesn't mean I hate all black guys. You are extrapolating data that may be parallell and contuguous, but not relevant. I'm sure if Canada had a history of harboring terrorists, DaDakota would want to blow the crap out of them too. It just happens that in the last 20 or so years most of the people who have perpetrated high profile acts of terrorism have happened to claim that they were muslim. Blame them for giving your religion a bad name, just as I think that people like KKK Clansmen who hide behind and believe that they are following Christianity are worthy of contempt. I don't blame the victim of the Clan for distrust of christianity in general.
Very few of these people are responsible for the crimes. Some countries, like Iran, are headed towards Democracy. Saudi Arabia's hatred of terrorists is well-documented. Let's concentrated on finding the madmen who orchestrated this, and not assign blame across-the-board. Most Arabs are just people, like you or me. There are some madmen, but then, we had McVeigh and Terry Nichols. And the horror that has unfolded in the Middle East is going to drive more people mad. I want justice for what happened, not more hatred and empty revenge.
DaDakota and Hayestreet, Still awaiting a response regarding the ethnic cleansing. You specifically name several countries, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Afganastan. I am surprised you had the goodness in your heart to leave out Syria, Pakistan, Eqypt (just to name a few). You know these countries also have harbored "terrorists". So I guess following your thought process they should be "taken out" as well. What confuses me is this so called phrase terrorism. It is so easily associated with muslims and Islam. You notice in the media. The word Muslim or Islamic will come right before the word terrorist. On the contrary look in Ireland and the IRA are not referred to as Christian terrorists?? Why is that????
you guys have to understand that the USA can't just take over and conquer the middle east. Israel has suffered so many terrors act in the last year and that the problem with terror ,u don't have a face or an enemy u can see. fighting Terror is very hard in Afganistan ,Iran and Iraq there are millions of millions of people that suffer under the their political leaders. you have ti understand that it hard for us ,people in Israel ,see the palestiens people celebrate in Gaza strip and the west bank ,but still ,those are minority ,most palestiens revoke this hottible terror attack ,including Arafat. also ,I would like to send my condolences to all of you American citizens. also I wanted you to know that Israel declared tommorow as day of frief (forgot the word...) for the American people. Dan Lederman
