Im not justifying the actions of some of the people, like kidnapping and death threats. TJ stated that Muslims were uneducated and illiterate, and something must be done to stop them from going terrorist and sending death fatwas, I suggested to stop slandering their loved ones. Easy as that. You dont leavea group of wild untamed animals with kids and expect them no t to attack. You train em, and tame em, and then you let the kids be with them. Same thing, dont finger with the irate muslims who just need a spark right now to let out all their frustrations.
It's called respecting Allah's decree. It is no different in Christianity, either. Do you know how many people are excommunicated by the Catholics, or banned form the church (the society in rural societies)? If we are not supposed to depict Mohammed, then we do not depict him. If some one does depict him and slanders his image, then you are going to face fierce resistance from the followers. You do realize a Muslim is someone who has been devoted to Allah, right? Some are Muslims by birth, some aren't. Those who aren't will be the most furious.
read the post i have above. I was just responding to the post in which TJ stated that Illiterate people need to be stoppped from behaving this way, so obviously the first thing you look at is the instigator. No, I dont support the death of innocents or the kidnapping of civillians or anyone over this issue, but im sure there are many ignorant, frustrated, heated up muslims who do feeel otherwise.
Exactly. If you take a look at the Riots in India for example, between hindus and muslims. Many of the Muslim guys running around and retaliationg to the Hindu guys running around (vice versa) and killing innocents were not the religious types, they werent the ones who spent their times in the mosque, they werent the ones who actually read the quran and knew right from wrong. IT was the people who just wanted to fight for the sake of everyone else is doing it, and it sounds like a good cause. These type of people are the ones who even attack innocents, and eventually outnumber the religious ones and destroy the main cause of the battle, and just go out to destroy anything for the sake of making a point.
so a group of wild untamed animals=uneducated muslims and kids=the educated danish populace is this what you're saying?
Again, let me reiterate that there are a lot of means by which the Muslims could punish those that disrespect them, and none of those options need to include any type of violent retribution. Systematic economic boycotts alone would achieve the desired response. Diplomatically, I think most Muslim states have already protested these cartoons, so that should be sufficient enough to let their displeasure be known. I think it should be left at that... President Clinton made a passing commentary about these cartoons in a speech he gave at a conference in Qatar: http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=38192 Clinton on Anti-Islamic Prejudice In his speech, Clinton warned against rising anti-Islamic prejudice. "None of us are totally free of stereotypes about people of different races, different ethnic groups, and different religions," he said. Clinton cited the "appalling" example of 12 editorial cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad that were published on Sept. 30, 2005, in a Danish newspaper. In one cartoon, Muhammad wears a bomb-shaped turban. A furor erupted over the cartoons in parts of the Muslim world—any depiction of Muhammad being viewed as promoting idolatry—and led to official protests, boycotts of Danish goods, and a Jan. 30 statement from the European Union defending the Danish government and freedom of the press. "So now what are we going to do? … Replace the anti-Semitic prejudice with anti-Islamic prejudice?" Clinton said. Clinton denounced a tendency to apply media images of Islamic militancy to "a whole faith, a whole region, and a whole people." Responding to the victory of Hamas in Palestinian elections, Clinton said that the United States should "continue to be heavily involved" in efforts to resolve the Israeli–Palestinian crisis. However, he said that U.S. engagement "depends in part on what Hamas says and does."
The fire in a theater argument is very limited in scope and is limited to people who do so in order to provoke a stampede. If you think you see a fire and incorrectly try to warn people you are not subject to sanction. If you are talking about fire alarms and someone freaks out then that's not inflammatory speech. If you really believe what you are sayings I will give you my address and insult the prophet or your family or someone and let you come over here and beat the crap out of me or kill me or whatever. You would be doing me a favor because I don’t want to live in the crappy world that would result from your philosophy.
clinton is a really brilliant man. tiger, i can't understand a word your two brothers are saying. can you explain it to me like the idiot child i am? what does it matter if someone makes fun of allah?
A couple of points: - It is a bad idea to censor unpopular speech. It might seem like a good idea to you, but it won't when your views are unpopular. - How can a cartoon that is mocking Muhammed be considered idolatry? No one is going to worship something that is being mocked. - Do these same Muslims get up in arms when other figures appear in comics/art? That would be idolatry too, no? - The Catholic church has had a number of "reformations", or revisions (see Vatican II, for example), so no need to worry about offending them by suggesting the same for Islam (even though I know it was in reference to the Protestent Reformation). - As mentioned earlier, all political cartoons tend to offend someone. You don't normally see this level of reaction to them. The actions of Al Aqsa are sad and pathetic, though coming from them, hardly surprising. - Islam seems to be the most insecure of all religions. How many other religions do you see banning all other religions in countries where they are the majority?
It's only idolatry if Muslims do it, so in this case that doesn't apply. There have been numerous cartoons in the past of the Prophet and you didn't hear a beep about them, but those didn't portray the messenger of an entire religion as a terrorist, which seems to directly suggest that Muslims are terrorists for they're only following the example of their terrorist messenger. THAT'S what the outrage is about, not idolatry. Anyways, it was in bad taste, plain and simple, so it is what it is, no need to further elaborate on that. I hope cooler heads prevail. BTW, you call Christianity "reformed", but I have known some Christians (mostly not followers of Western churchs) who believe Christianity in the West is watered down and distorted to fit a 'commercialized' version that could be marketed to the masses. So your view on that vastly differs from some other Christians; just thought I would share that with you...
Honest question: Do muslims issue high level death threats/fatwahs against other ME countries/gov't/people when they are offended by them? (Aside from Rushdie). Or is it strictly reserved for the West? Did Kadafi get threatened when he turned away from the dark side?
Most fundamentalist movements view first and foremost "collaborators" with the West (i.e. most current regimes in the Muslim world) as their true enemy. Throughout the 20th century, there have been numerous attacks and assassinations of verious figures in the Arab world, for example, by radical Islamists (Sadat was assassinated for collaboration with the enemy, Israel). Also, Al-Qaeda has consistently targeted Shi'ites and government figures in Iraq whom they view as collaborators with the enemy, the U.S. and its invading allies. Qadafi, btw, is NOT beloved by the radicals, he's seen as yet another 'puppet' Arab leader who rebelled against his masters for a while, but now has gone back to them and made amends. Mubarak has had multiple attempts on his life, Musharraf as well, etc...
I don't get it. You are demanding a country that has freedom of speech/press to censor an independent newpapers' cartoon? How about demand the freedom of able to own a bible. What a ****ing joke this is.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/02/gaza.cartoon/index.html i dunno, i guess they're trying to make a point. What it is, I dont know. But I hope people can can the Islam is Peace speech for a while. I'm not really in the mood to hear it after this article.
Try to get your hot-headed views about Islam out of your head and get your facts straight and then may be you can start viewing things in a more rational manner...I have noticed you have this zealousness about many of your posts about anything relating to the religion or its followers. Calm down, hotballa, bad Muslims won't come after you.
how about saudi arabia? how about iran? i know iranians who live here, say that living in iran was terrible under the islamic revolution. but you seem to not acknowledge there is a problem in the society when people in that society says there's a problem there. http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060120053534926 dude, you guys have problems, at least admit their's a HUGE issue with women's rights. "almost all". there's been so many documentaries about how bad the rights are compared to europe and north america for women. i know you are on the defense on this topic but not admitting it exists and there are huge flaws are ignorant. there are flaws in all religions and cultures. Women's rights are limited in Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia has agreed to allow women to attend a football match against Sweden, reversing an earlier decision. On Monday, Saudi authorities had told the Swedish Football Association that a change of stadium meant women could not watch the match in the capital, Riyadh. But after intervention by Swedish diplomats on Tuesday, the Saudi authorities backed down. The ban on women spectators had caused upset in Sweden, one of the world's leading nations on gender equality. The issue arose when the match venue was shifted to a smaller stadium, the Swedish FA's head of communications, Jonas Nystedt, told the BBC. Sweden's deputy head of mission in Riyadh, Christer Nilsson, met officials at the Saudi Ministry of Information to resolve the problem. Swedish and Saudi women will now be allowed to attend the match on Wednesday, Mr Nystedt said. The reason for the change of stadium was not known. Speak out Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds told parliament on Tuesday that it was important for Sweden to speak out clearly on discrimination against women and that this was a "good occasion", the AFP news agency reported. A May 2005 assessment by international NGO the World Economic Forum placed Sweden highest in the world on gender equality. In parliament, 45% of MPs are women. Women in Saudi Arabia must be covered from head to toe and stay separate from men. They have traditionally played a very limited role in public life.
