but last year were a guy who made the argument that they shouldn't draft vy for the intangibles, ie hometown guy, ut guy, etc. and honestly I agree, it would have been a mistake then if you didn't think young had the tools to be successful, and it most likely was a mistake with carr. just make sound football decisions.
It's also ironic for all the VY lovers who bash the Texans' decision to make Carr instead of Peppers the first overall pick five years ago. It's the same principle.
why, I think most people could see the obvious that vy was special, regardless of where he's from. what is your deal anyway, you'll argue for a scrub like simms yet you think people are over estimating vy. you need to get your priorities straight.
I'd argue vehemently against Simms if there were tons of threads here saying the Texans franchise was doomed for the rest of eternity because of passing on Simms for Ragone four years ago. I like VY just like I like Simms and pretty much all Texas athletes... but I care more about Houston teams. With Simms, there's no connection... with VY, people make it into one.
here's what i know: sage rosenfels signed a contract to play football for the houston texans. he participated in offseason workouts, training camp, practices and preseason games. never did gary kubiak publically state that rosnefels efforts were all for naught: not when he signed him nor at any point prior to the regular season. i didn't say that. carr started the second half. and yes, rosenfels looked good... after tennessee built leads of 18 - twice. i mean, you're not only talking about a blow-out loss, but literally 24:51 out of a 960-minute season (i looked it up). and you want to draw definitive conclusions from that small a sample size? and explain why this performance from rosenfels resonates but carr's even better garbage-time performance earlier in the year against the colts is dismissed? on his way to hawaii? what? let me ask you a question: you listed andre johnson as the team's 2nd best playmaker - what plays did he make last season? caught a league-best 103 passes... and scored 5 tds. he was a playmaker? i agree completely; have you bought/read "blindside" yet? that's the point of this offense. it's a ball-control system designed to limit mistakes, specifically by the QB. the WCO was invented by bill walsh while the OC with the bengals. saddled with a terrible QB, walsh created a system in which a QB had only to read the defense and throw to a spot. the receiver or back was then expected to be in the spot and make a play after the catch. again, it's all detailed in the book. let's just say joe montana was not, by any stretch, the first QB walsh successfully groomed. he revived the careers of some pretty lackluster guys - just read the book. you'll get a better perspective of how much we overrate the QBs performance. rhester, the floor is yours - please detail how david carr (or any other QB) is supposed to "step up and make plays." since you're holding him individually accountable, be sure not to mention any other teammates in your breakdown. otherwise, we might think it requires additional help for QBs to be successful. rhester, you are making gigantic leaps - who's demanding "perfect conditions"? i'd be content with average. wait, wait - WAIT! a great veteran OL and outstanding running game would account for 2-3 more victories (which would've put us in the playoff hunt, if not the playoffs) and help carr's performance "tremendously"... and you want us to focus on getting a better QB who "steps up and makes plays"???? well, we can agree to disagree on the deep ball; the way you beat houston in its first three years was by shutting down the deep pass - it was known league-wide as their one and only weapon offensively; it's why so many teams play cover 2 against them. i'm not sure that "good quick reads" are "playmaking skills" - important, sure, but i doubt QBs who can make good quick reads but not deliver the pass after doing so are in great demand. as for spreading the ball around: to who? eric moulds, the team's second-best receiver who they just cut for performance issues? or one of the guys who couldn't beat out recently-disposed eric moulds? certainly a fair assessment; i understand it completely. i, too, have some doubts. but i'd rather have carr back than any of the thus-far available alternatives, including rosnefels. i think he'll be ok if they can build around him. maybe even help him "tremendously" and win "2-3" more games next year...
The posts aren't fun to read when every sentence has to be individually quoted and replied to Has anyone heard any new rumors?
No.... he signed a contract to be the back-up to David Carr for the Houston Texans. Lets stop making it sound like he was really "competing" for the job (or even had a chance at the start the season for that matter), because he wasn't. In his brief stints of playing time, be them as they may, he was never outplayed by David Carr.
i understand he was the "back-up;" that doesn't mean he was asked to take his performance down a notch or told that his efforts would be a wasted. obviously, carr's rehabilitation was paramount. but to claim david carr was handed the job despite being "outplayed" by sage rosenfels is veering dangerously close to accusing kubiak of not fielding the best team possible; and by extension, accusing him of not caring whether the team won or loss.
I believe the proper claim would be that David Carr was given every chance to prove himself as the starter. I don't think anyone doubts that Carr has a higher ceiling than Rosenfels. However, Carr's late season performances would surely have gotten him benched had Rosenfels not been hurt. We weren't going to put in Van Pelt with such limited practice time. I think the biggest argument in favor of no competition had to do with the first Titans game. Carr was horrible. No question about it. Sage was very good against the same team and actually played well enough to get us back in the game. Yet with this, Kubiak still made the proclamation that Carr was his starter and they felt this was a growing experience. Had this been open competition, Carr would have been benched until Rosenfel's played himself out of the job.
No it's not. It happens all the time in sports. If Hunter Pence outplays Carlos Lee in spring training, he's not going to win the job from him. If whoever Peyton Manning's backup is outplays him in training camp, he's not going to earn the job. Backups are often signed to be backups, and presumed starters are going to given a whole lot more leeway than backups when competing for jobs. That's the case in every sport at every level.
so, major, your point is that david carr has the same track record of a peyton manning? or even a carlos lee? the rope with carr was certainly longer - i'm not disputing that. but to say offseason workouts, training camp, daily practices, film sessions, preseason games, etc., were all meaningless is a bit of a stretch, no? studdog, bringing carr back after the benching in tennessee was, per kubiak, an important step in his developement. he'd never been faced with such adversity and he wanted to see how he responded. the texans could have traded for peyton manning after the tennessee game, and carr was still going to start - that was a pivitol week in his season/career.
No, but when you're paid $8MM a year and your franchise passed up Vince Young because it said it believed in you, your team is not going to then start Sage Rosenfels, no matter how good they each look in training camp.
Ric, 1. I thought drafting Carr was right at the time. Although I admit I was sold primarily by Casserly's evaluations and reputation. 2. I do not think Carr should be run out of town- and if he comes back so be it. I admit I expected much more from him than what he has shown. I think he had the weapons this past season and the opportunities this past season to shut me up and make plays. If it was Kubiak or Kubiak's system that kept him from making plays to the tight ends, the slot receiver, running backs out of the backfield and AJ down field then so be it. I cannot tell how throttled he was by Kubiak. What I can say is that he played decent the first few games and began to steadily decline. By seasons end he was terrible in my opinion. Did he get sacked? Yes, too much. Did he have some drops, yes! Did all the routes get run right? Ask the coaches. What did I see? Same thing I saw for his career. He made bad decisions throwing to people covered when someone else was running free and he had time to read properly. He was unsure of himself in the pocket often moving into the pressure. He made the decision too often to dump off the ball when he was getting protection. He underthrew too many deep balls. He threw a very good out pattern but under used that route (Kubiak?) He looked unsure when the going got tough and often locked on to a receiver. He did not take care of the football (although I thought some of those fumbles were caused by brutal hits) And he failed to attack the zones not reading when the cover was off the receivers by 3-4 yds. He threw into bump coverage too much especially to AJ and he showed panic when facing big blitzes. Now some of this is due to being behind a sorry OL and having his face smashed on the ground every game, some of it is due to sorry receivers who can't run a route and some of it is due to very poor play calling and control by inept coaches. I am sure I could make a case that Carr has been abused by this organization. I regret that, but he is the QB he is. It is sad to me because it has been very costly- the David Carr experience. I wish him well, hope he does great for his next team, but I don't like the way he played for 5 seasons after going #1 overall and being sold as the cornerstone of the franchise. He has failed to show me the kind of play that will get us to the Super Bowl when I consider his entire body of work. He never seemed to be able to take the team on his shoulders for one game and win the game. I know I am expecting alot. I am expecting exactly what I would have expected from Vince Young if we had drafted him, just that I would have expected Carr to do it solely with his arm. I don't want him to be the ONE at fault- singled out as the cancer of the team, I just want a change at QB and I think another year of Carr will be a disaster. Maybe I am wrong? I lost my high expectation of him his second season, I didn't think he made improvement. One thing I really am biased about is that in my opinion Carr is about the same QB he was his first season- just different personnel and more experience- but I can't say he is playing any better.
