i answered it as best i could... it's a hypothetical - what else do you want? there're so many factors that go into winning a football game.... and yes, the titans were a bad football team the first three weeks (when they played teams currently with a 24-15 record); i don't think, however, that vince young is exclusively responsible for their turnaround. he's A reason, but not THE reason. their QB was kerry collins; travis henry was hurt; their defense wasn't forcing turnovers at its current clip... those elements were rectified at nearly the exact same time vy was named starter - i think they ALL have contributed to the team's turnaround. plus, three of his 6 wins as a starter have been against teams that are a combined 12-36; they beat philadelphia after knocking donovan mcnabb out of the game... i mean, there are A LOT of reasons for their turnaround in addition to vince young. that's all i've ever said... but hero worship is not allowing these elements into the discussion.
A pretty hilarious facet of Young-denial conference that is being held on this board is that the Titans defense being reinvented as the Steel Curtain. Since Vince took over, the Titans have had more total yards than their opponents exactly twice, and the defense has had multiple games of giving up 400+ yards, which is why they're last in the NFL in that category. (losing their starting DT to suspension and replacing him with a street free agent really helped I'm sure) Of course this canard is beautiful because it works multiple ways - you can use it the other way to bash Young "his offense isn't good enough to outgain his defense", or to bash him in " yeah, so why isn't he elevating the defense' play" sense - or you can harp on the games in which they've had a few turnovers and won and say they only won because of turnovers - conveniently ignoring the games they won with a negative turnover margin, and then bash Young for turning it over in those games - It's basically a win-win-win-win-win situation if you're willing to be dishonest enough like some posters here are - out of what is apparently a sense of football moral compass, LMFAO. That's why the games are played on the field and not in the stat sheet, and it's pretty obvious that, placebo or not, the guy is helping his team win more than almost any other player in the NFL right now - pretty incredible given the difficulty of playing QB in the NFL.
know what's funnier? people distorting points to the very limits of exaggeration. steel curtain? no one's even compared them to last year's steelers, let alone the steel curtain steelers of the late 70s. but 20 turnovers in the 10 games young has started is, i'm sorry, significant. yeah, qb is a difficult position - know what makes it easier? cutting the field in half. know what else makes it easier? stopping your opponent from scoring, which is easier to do when they don't have the football. the titans allowed 135 points in their first five games; 157 in their next 8 and that included a 37-7 blow-out against the jags. it's still a touchdown less a game; it's 10 points less a game minus the jacksonville debacle, but sure, keep dismissing it by blowing it out of proportion - maybe it'll just fade away in the glow of vince young....
Like you're doing here? Key detail omitted: 5 of those 20 turnovers came from one game vs. the hapless Texans, (aside: 3 of them at the hands of the quarterback you continually go to the mat for) Key detail omitted: During the four game win streak in which Young has been receiving accolades, the Titans have had a grand total of 7 takeaways, vs. 7 giveaways - for a margin of zero.
I would never try to argue or explain why the Titans win anything. But I will BELIEVE until proven otherwise that 'you know who' will win more games than Carr each season and start more playoff games and eventually have more Super Bowl rings. It's all opinion anyway, but I am going to BELIEVE that ' you know who' would have given the Houston Texans a far better chance of winning playing the QB position than Carr. I do not like UT, I never was a 'you know who' supporter and I still am not one because he wears the wrong uniform, but I BELIEVE he is the best player the Houston NFL franchise has had opportunity to draft since Earl Campbell and I also BELIEVE he would have made the same impact on this franchise Earl did with the Oilers. (I am trying to stop thinking his name- 'you know who') That is my opinion and if it works out that way after we have watched their respective careers -in the final analysis, I am sure I was just lucky in my opinion.
First, it would be 12-27, not 12-36. Second....3 of his 6 wins... 3 of his 6 wins against losing teams. Well what a surprise. I bet if you take ALL of the best teams in the league together... on average.... half of their wins will be against losing teams. Go figure. As for how much below 500 those 3 wins to losing teams were, the Titans can't help it that they had to play (and beat) Houston twice (8-18). Thanks for pointing out how much the Texans suck... apparently a win.. no... 2 wins... against us means cr*p. BTW... the other 3 wins were against teams that had records of 24-15. fwiw of course. Notice also that you said 3 of HIS 6 wins. You try to diminish Vince's role in the wins, yet he's the QB. You don't normally say '3 of his 6 wins as a starter' in relation to a defensive end or running back.... only QBs. And it works the other way too ... an RB can still be awesome w/o wins... Barry Sanders e.g.... yet if a QB had a winning % of the Lions during that time he would be considered a bust regardless of his personal stats. There are reasons for that, eh? Apparently many Texan apologists feel compelled to resort to homophobic attacks. Are homophobic attacks the last, best line of defense or is it just withdrawal into adolescence? who knows
that's fine and dandy, but it's not an individual sport. trent dilfer and has more SB rings than dan marino. i don't believe i've ever attempted to counter this point; vy is a playmaker; the titans will win some games BECAUSE of vy. my take on carr has ALWAYS BEEN that the texans CAN win with carr; they won't win BECAUSE of carr. and as i've pointed out just as many times, there's absolutely, positively nothing wrong with that; just ask troy aikman, who rode that MO all the way to canton. well, that's debateable... but those luv ya blue teams had some great players on them before earl and a lot of really important complimentary players too, who did grunt work exceedingly well (tim wilson; curly culp; mike reinfeldt). they were, if memory serves, 8-6 the year before earl, so he didn't exactly join the NO saints and lift them out of a pit. sorry; i didn't realize you were gay, which is no excuse, i know, but i thought we could be all, you know, "sports-bar; guy talk" here, which is wrong-headed and selfish on my part. my sincerest apologies. i honestly meant no offense... really; truly... my father's gay.
You do realize that there are straight people that think homophobia is unacceptable, right? Or are you really that ignorant?
You're not fooling anyone... your intention was a personal, juvenile attack on (what you expected were similarly homophobic) heteros, not gays, although it can be offensive to both. And if you were in the bar and made the similar comment, you'd probably lose teeth. People generally know when someone is trying to offend them, even when it is a misguided, juvenile effort.
I'm concerned only about how many times the Texans are going to play in the Super Bowl- that is the only bearing on my view of who the QB is or could have been. And which QB will get there in my humble opinion. I go one better, the Texans have won games with Carr. That isn't the point for fans who are upset about passing on VY. I'm not concerned about a team that has a great talent base that carries a QB to the championship, we all know that happens, I am more concerned about how difficult it is to get to a Super Bowl and how strategic draft picks; especially the #1 over all pick affect your team's opportunities. You are entirely missing my point. You are arguing for scenarios where we could still go to the Super Bowl with a QB the caliber of DC. Fine. Anything can happen. I want my team to play in a Super Bowl and when they have the chance to take a dramatic step towards that I want them to do it, especially when it concerns drafting #1 in the draft. You don't get that opportunity with a VY type player sitting there that many times in the life of your franchise. You may not rate VY as being someone who could translate to a Super Bowl eventually but I do. And I feel the opposite about DC. Please don't minimize Earl's impact unless you sit down with Tim, Curly, Mike, Bum, Dante, Elvin, Mauck, and the rest and get their views. I don't think I was trying to diminish the team's contribution nor negate the need for a supporting cast. There isn't anyone in football who doesn't know that Earl was the difference in the success of the franchise from day 1 of his rookie season for the next 5 seasons.- They do not go to the AFC championship games without Earl. Period. Ric- you are obviously very knowledgable about football, and I understand that VY alone cannot win anything. I also realize VY will make plenty of mistakes and I realize that he isn't the greatest player to ever take the field in the history of the NFL. My opinion is that if we had drafted VY, and Kubiak continued to draft as well as he did in the other rounds; this team would be a playoff contender next season and a short ways from being in a Super Bowl. That may not sound right to you, but that is what I want this team to accomplish. So I hope you can understand why I personally feel from a football decision we passed up something very special. Again- I am a UH alum, could care less about how UT does and was totally sold on VY strictly based upon seeing incredible football talent, amazing playmaking ability in both the passing game and running, and Montana like leadership and confidence on the field. I could see the impact he made on his team and on the game itself. Wasn't it obvious to you? I saw VY as the #1 no brainer choice for any team drafting at #1 except for New England, Indy, and any other team that has that kind of QB talent already; not because he grew up in Houston or played in Texas but because he is the best college prospect I have seen since P Manning.
you know what, you're right; i didn't initially mean an ounce of ill will with the ball-tasting comment, nor did i mean to imply homosexuality was abhorrent. i was merely teasing the degree of hero worship by taking it to a remarkable extreme. cohen's reaction to the comment recast it as disrespectful, imo, but i'll certainly owe up to putting myself and the comment out there and have no one to blame for anyone's take on it but myself. if you read hatred into it, i apologize. that's not a part of who i am. further, my response to cohen flat-out read, well, flat; it was funny in my head, maybe not as much in written form minus facial expressions and a hearty, "just ****ing with you, dude" slap on the back follow-up.
i spit right back at ya, pac man is a thug and may get shot in a drive by before his career is over. i guarentee this thuggish ruggish a@# will be arrested again in the near future, while he is a great athelete, he is whats wrong with professional sports today!
Yeah, I don't know what I like more, gay jokes or black jokes. Ric, I'm sure those types of jokes go over a bit better at the Dixie Chicken, but Cohen is an Austinite. We're a bit more tolerant. Well intentioned apology though, so I don't mean to lash out.
