So Ric, what do you think about intangibles now? Do you admit that a player can elevate the play of his teamates, or do you still see that as fantasy? DD
what people often fail to cite in their blinding, carr-induced ire is that the system is designed to throw shorter balls to eliminate turnovers and give the receivers a chance to break the game open. i mean, it's not like aj and moulds are streaking downfield wide open and carr is dumping off to mark bruener... he's hit johnson 92 freaking times this year. IT'S BY DESIGN! unfortunately, johnson rarely, if ever, does anything after making the catch, assuming he hasn't dropped another one. everybody remember jerry rice? yeah, how often was he running fly patterns? answer: rarely - that version of the WCO was designed to hit him on quick, 7-yard slants that he then turned into 70-yard touchdowns. the next time andre johnson breaks a game open will be the first. i'm more and more convinced he's vastly overrated, independent of carr. honestly, corey bradford broke games open as a texan than andre johnson has. i mean, if you're going to discount carr's high comp %, then how are you, in the same breath, commending johnson's 92 catches? he ranks 66th[/i] among WRs with at least 30 catches in YPC. he's a great possession receiver. and as upset as people are that carr ONLY led the team to a game-tying FG, where are the posts and threads about johnson - getting single coverage from renaldo ****ing hill - not making a play on the ball at the goal line that would have iced the game? oh, right - we're too worried about carr to bother looking at other elements of the team not living up to expectations....
He was doing that HITCH pass last year ever so nicely, Ric. I am sure you remember he broke those for 30 and 40 yard gains.
what did VY do to "elevate" his teammates? when did that happen, DD? let's see: in the final 3.5 minutes + overtime of the game - you know, when magical players make everyone around them magically better.... the titan defense gave up a game-tying FG to one of the worst offensive units in football. who did VY elevate there? the titans then squandered a golden opportunity to win it in regulation by going three-and-out after brown's failed squib kick gave them the ball at their own 40 with 2 TOs remaining... i'm failing to see where any players elevated their game there, too - help me, out, DD... even on the game winning drive, VYs teammates nearly derailed it with a cataclysmic holding penalty that knocked them out of field goal range and piss-poor blocking allowed the texans to flood the pocket on a crucial 3rd and 14 that nearly ended the drive and forced a punt. that it didn't was virtue of young's heartiful heart? his courageous courage? nah, let's go with his athelticism. so with the game on the line, i saw exactly zero titans "elevating" their game when it mattered most, save for young on the final play. so why don't you explain to me how "elevating the play of teammates" isn't a fantasy...
ric, this act is old and tired. we all know the texans suck. we all know there are problems everywhere. included in that is QB. it's the position that grabs the most focus among fans. we all know the team bites...carr is on the team, too.
you don't believe certain people, in sports or any other walk of life, find a way of maximizing the talent of others when working together??? in the business world we call that good management. sometimes we call it good leadership. a guy who puts others at ease helps them to perform at their best. a guy who makes others believe "it's gonna happen" is valuable in any organization. why is this so lost on you? do you deal with human beings much?
He probably thinks everything on a baseball diamond is told by OBP....WHIP...RSVP....MIA and other stats. Sports are played on spreadsheets! Hey wait...darn it...I am arguing for Vince Young...sorta...in a roundabout way...someone shoot me.
I agree with Ric. Vince didn't raise his team above the Texans, he raised himself, and just like the Rose Bowl, pretty much won the game with his own dominant skills. How many 3rd down runs did Vince break for 1st downs where he made our guys miss?
says the guy who's yet to let an opportunity to bash david carr pass... so, max, if we ALL know it... where are the threads? hell, screw threads - where are the posts? what we all most definitely know is that carr is playing below expectations. that it requires countless threads to discuss it, at the near-universal exclusion of nearly everything else on the team, is what's old. we get it - carr sucks. what more could honestly be added to the discussion at this point....? apparently, even more discussion!!! no, i do not. max, if i was a dynamic leader who you loved and respected and i asked you to lift a car 325 times, would you be able to do it? too extreme an example? well, the implication DD and others is making is equally extreme, imo. he's convinced that this motley collection of only the best professional football players in the world are, minus a certain individual, not capable of consistently performing up to their capacity. and that, i'm sorry, is a ridiculous notion - how did these guys ever thrive in high school or college without VY there to "elevate" their game...? it's silly fodder for the richard justice's of the world... i mean, if it's just a naturally flowing intangible, shouldn't the titans be 8-0 in their last 8 games? no, no, of course not - i'm being ridiculous, aren't i...? says the guy who believes a player can "elevate" the play of others......
All you have to do is watch and listen to understand it's not a 'fantasy'. There's much research on what makes a leader... leaders are not fantasies. Can you think of great leaders in history and what they accomplished? I can think of a few...
Well, before we go back down that highway, let me make this one point: I have soured on Carr because of his over all demeanor this season specifically what's gone down in games when he failed to step up and make a definitive statement with his play and about his apparent lack of concern for the way the Houston Texans football fans are suffering. It's just nothing personal because he's a truly good fellow and all that but his "What? Me Worry" attitude rubs me the wrong way. I want a quarterback who hates to lose and who would do whatever it took to win. That is not David Carr. I want a quarterback who leaves no doubt as to how much the competitive fires are burning inside him - fueling him onward. That is not David Carr. To use a Star Trek analogy: The Texans need a Klingon Warrior but instead, find themselves stuck with a Vulcan.
Ric, Vince gives his team hope, a feeling that they are NEVER out of it, he makes them play harder in dire situations because they have a feeling, a trust in Vince as their leader. Just look at all the Titans themselves and what they are saying, look at what Kubiak is saying....leadership is TANTAMOUNT to success, I am sorry you don't believe one, maybe you have never been one or met one, but it makes a HUGE difference playing with someone who is a winner and has intagibles, you just play harder with and for them. I can clearly see that you are going to be obtuse about this point, so maybe I feel a poll coming on.... DD
Have you EVER been in a leadership position? If you have a boss you hate, do you work just as hard as you do for a boss you love? If you believe you have a chance to succeed, you don't work any harder than if you know something's pointless? If you're a leader of a team, you think your team members are all going to perform exactly the same no matter your personality, leadership skills, etc? Wow. I don't think there is a person in the world that would agree with you.
Ric -- slow down. i'm not saying he can make people do stuff they couldn't do otherwise. i'm suggesting that there are people who seem to have a knack for getting the most out of people they work with. by being a calming influence. or by being a motivational leader. if what you are saying is true, then leadership is a farce. it doesn't exist. it's just a "ridiculous" notion. i'm sorry, you will just never convince me that's not the case. you will never convince me that joe montana didn't have a calming influence on his team in the huddle. you will never convince me that john elway's steely resolve didn't give his players confidence; and that playing with confidence is better than playing without it. or that magic johnson didn't get more out james worthy than any other PG could, merely because he was a good passer. i can not imagine you will find many who agree with your position on this topic...even if they agree with your opinion about the texans.
frankly, i wasn't initially responding to anything you said; i was responding to DD: (emphasis mine) not only do i disagree that it's humanly possible for someone to "elevate" someone else's play, i actually cited not one, not two, but SEVERAL counter-examples of players very nearly blowing the game sunday for tennessee, including even young, who's 4Q INT could have ended any and all titan hopes. of course, the examples were all ignored because it's easier to live in a world of made-up intangibles that have no quantifiable way to be proven. if you want to taste my frustration, i suggest you go read any and every post-WS article about little davey eckstein and how his gritty, big-hearted, clutchy, scrappy, hustling 4'8" frame willed his teammates to win - it's the same meaningless bull**** only you can actually see it because your head's not buried in little davey eckstein's lap like it is with VY's. vince young is an individual playing a team sport. he does not succeed or fail by his lonesome, nor do the talents of those around him spike by virtue of his presence.
is this still even an argument? so what if you don't think vince raises his team's play, that just means he's that much better because you're admiting that this guy is so dominant he can win games by himself. case closed either way.
you're all over the board, either he did succeed on his own, or his team's play has been elevated, either way he's incredible.
I am with the latter. I think great players overcome their teamates mistakes to win, rather than elevate them past their normal capabilities. I do think VY is a great individual QB. His running is what makes him great, moreso than anything else.
