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Carlos Correa to the Twins - 6 years, $200 million

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Rockets34Legend, Jan 10, 2023.

  1. Yordan The Great

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    He doesn't.
     
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  2. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    Minnesota is going to pay him close to 240 million over 7 years which is much higher than the 160 million the Astros offered. He also go to test the waters and nearly got 350 million. In no way are the offers that close. The Astros made the right decision for themselves with Pena in the pipeline, and the Carlos definitely made the right decision from a monetary standpoint. Everyone won except for the fans like me who would have loved seeing Correa retire an Astro.
     
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  3. the shark

    the shark Member

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    The point is the Stros offer of 5/160 was right in line with the AAV (32 mil per). They had his medicals and even knowing they had Pena coming up they still extended Correa a d@mn good offer. Sure he got a few more guaranteed yrs with MINN but the AAV was right in line with their offer as well as the longer multi yr deals that both SF and NYM pulled out of after seeing the medicals.

    All said and done, anyone trying to spin the Stros 5/160 as an insult offer is full of it. Sure Correa wanted more and just because Seager, Turner and Bogaerts got longer deals, they got these because they didn't have any major red flags with their medicals. People were wondering what the heck SF was doing pulling out of their offer but they sure weren't calling them crazy when lo and behold SF did the exact same thing. Knowing what everyone knows now guaranteeing around 5-6 yrs was the smart move with Correa.
     
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  4. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    They didn't know what everybody knows now... because it was't known (he hadn't re-injured the leg). The back issue was apparently not enough to scare people away from the 10-12 year deals.

    In the end, the Astros didn't expect Correa to take the offer they gave him... that by itself can construe it as being a "token" offer. Depending on what you read, they also didn't really negotiate or change the offer (officially) at any point. It was an initial "take it or leave it" approach that also speaks volumes as to the seriousness of it.

    It wasn't an "insult" because it was significant money... but Correa did the right thing, minus losing some sleep and taking bigger risks, if the goal was to simply get the most guaranteed years/money. Just bad luck for him that an injury from nearly a decade ago got re-aggravated in the last few weeks of an otherwise healthy regular season.... and ended up raising enough red flags to cost him over $100 million guaranteed.
     
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  5. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    They weren't lowballing him based on medical information. They only wanted him back if they got a sweetheart deal, which is what they offered. They knew he was worth substantially more and was never going to take it.
     
  6. ac in austin

    ac in austin Contributing Member

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    Does anyone think the Rangers offered him the Seager contract?
     
  7. marks0223

    marks0223 2017 and 2022 World Series Champions
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  8. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    But it's not about the AAV. It's about the total guarantee AT that AAV.

    If a team is going to offer a shorter contract they must offer a higher AAV or else they are wasting everyone's time.

    There are only 3 possible reasons the Astros made this offer.

    1) They know there is no way Carlos can possibly fit within the team budget so they make an offer they know will not be accepted hoping to keep fans from getting upset.

    2) They are delusional and actually think Correa might short change himself to remain an Astro.

    3) They are stupid.

    It doesn't matter what Correa actually signed for. EVERYONE knew their offer was not at the level Correa was wanting or expecting and it had ZERO chance of being accepted.

    Why do you make an offer that you know has no chance of being accepted? So you can try and fool the fans into thinking you tried.
     
  9. the shark

    the shark Member

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    And AGAIN it does NOT matter what Correa was wanting last yr. Yes of course he wanted a 300+ offer. I'm talking about from the Stros perspective. Stros had their medicals on him and made an offer that took everything into acct and offered him 5/160. My comments are addressing the fools who are calling this an insulting offer. Call it whatever you want the Stros offer was right in the length that MINN gave him WITHOUT having to meet vesting options.
     
  10. Yordan The Great

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    But they didn't.

    They paid him 3 yr 105 which turned into 1 yr 35.

    Correa could have injured himself during that year and hampered his ability to get another substantial contract.

    The twins have now signed him to 6 yr 200 million. They are disjointed contracts. You don't magically sew them together.

    Compare that to 5 yr 160 million and our offer wasn't nearly as laughable as some of you bozos are making it out to be.

    1 more year, 3.3M more AAV.

    That's called being in the ballpark. If Correa had to do it all over again, he would have accepted the Astros offer vs being in purgatory in Minnesota watching Cleveland and Chicago place ahead of them in the division.
     
  11. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    TA: What did the Giants say to you about the ankle?

    Correa: The conversations were about the future. We were talking about a 13-year deal. What they were saying is that in the future it might not hold up. Which I couldn’t understand. That was the toughest part for me.

    I never missed a game because of my ankle. You look at my complete medical record in the big leagues, there is zero treatment on my ankle. And it has never hurt. I couldn’t understand how they were predicting the future, saying 8-10 years down the line something might happen to it.

    TA: Did the Mets later tell you the same thing?

    Correa: The Giants used an ankle specialist who didn’t pass me. Then the Mets used the same specialist, who obviously wasn’t going to pass me. He had already given an opinion to another team about my ankle. He was not going to change that. He was going to stand by what he was saying, of course, because that is what he believed.

    We did have other ankle specialists look at it and say it was going to be fine, orthopedists who know me, even the one who did the surgery on me. They were looking at the functionality of the ankle, the way the ankle has been the past eight years. I’ve played at an elite level where my movement has never been compromised. It was just a year ago when I won a Platinum Glove at shortstop, one of the most demanding positions, where you have to move the most. But the one doctor that had never touched me or seen me or done a test on me, that was the one who said it wasn’t going to be fine.

    TA: When did you start to think the Twins could be an option again?

    Correa: When we started moving forward with the negotiations, the Twins were always in the conversation. It was because of the way my family was treated when I was there. I feel like whatever clubhouse I’m in, I’m going to make it work for myself, do the right things to get along with my teammates and coaches. But when your family feels a certain special treatment, that’s something I value a lot.

    The Minnesota Twins did that for us last year. My father and my wife’s father would drop me off at the ballpark. They would stay and watch BP. They would sit in the stands. They could go to the press box. They could go to the Champions Club. They got their badges, and they were like part of the staff at Target Field.

    I always took that into consideration. I never forgot that. I never forgot that feeling. I never forgot those conversations with my family when I got back to our house after games about how great everyone made them feel. I always told Scott, “Never stop talking to the Twins. Try to make it work.” My wife loved it there. Simply everybody loved it there.

    Then the thing with the physical happened with the Mets and Scott started talking about (contract) language with their lawyers. That’s when it looked like the deal was not going to get done, because of certain things with the language that were impossible to accomplish. That’s when I told Scott, “Make me a Twin. Let’s make it work with the Twins.”

    TA: Back to the ankle. How much does it bother you that it’s going to be a topic of conversation now, and probably for the rest of your career?

    Correa: I don’t think it’s going to bother me. It doesn’t bother me now, so I don’t think it will bother me moving forward. I’ve gone through pretty tough things in my career. The way I handle it is, if I can control it, I’ll control it. If I can’t, then I’ll just move forward.

    I can’t control the perspective of people and what they’re going to say about my ankle. What I can control is the work I put in to post, taking care of my body every single day to make sure I go out and perform for 10 years for the Minnesota Twins.

    Like I said, if I can’t control it, I won’t stress over it.

    TA: Giants fans might always wonder what might have been if we had gotten Correa. Mets fans might look at it the same way. Will you look at it that way?

    Correa: No. I move forward very quickly. This is something that was part of my story. It was very well-documented. A lot of people talked about it. But it’s time to move on and focus now on the Minnesota Twins and the things that I started doing last year with the team, to try to win a championship for Minnesota.

    There’s no hard feelings toward both (the Giants’ and Mets’) organizations. There’s nothing but respect for them. Doctors have differences of opinion. That’s fine. But God took me here to the Minnesota Twins. I couldn’t be more grateful for this opportunity.

    You put everything into perspective when you go through a process like this. You focus on the things that matter most. One thing I learned is that I love my family, I love the support system I have around me. I have a small circle I can trust and that is loyal.

    At the end of the day, God put me in the right spot.
     
  12. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    B S.

    show me ANY report that says medicals had anything to do with the Astros offer. Nobody mentioned any issue with his lower leg before the Giants physical. A full year later.

    The Astros simply stood by their policy of not giving any long term commitment that could hurt payroll flexibility 6+ years down the road.

    And AGAIN what Correa wanted is the only thing that matters to this discussion.

    This discussion is about whether the Astros offer was reasonable and/or whether it was a fair offer.

    What Correa wants and expects is a HUGE part of that. He didn't want anything his peers weren't getting.

    What happened a full year later in a completely different situation has no connection or bearing on contract negotiations from a previous season.

    Correa was widely accepted as the equal of players who got 10+ years and $300M guarantees.

    The Astros offer was significantly less than anyone expected him to get or accept.

    They knew what other equivalent shortstops were getting.

    They knew what Correa wanted and expected.

    They offered a much lesser contract

    Now I agree it was the right thing, but that doesn't change what it was- a slap in the face.
     
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  13. the shark

    the shark Member

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    "Lower leg"???????

    I stopped reading right there.

    How about they didn't want to give him more than five years because of his Freakin back!!

    Games played:
    '17 109
    '18 110
    '19 75
    '20 covid
    '21 148
    '22 136

    That's why they didn't want to give him more than five yrs and it was THE SMART thing to do and yet they were still willing to give him 5/160 and that's an insult offer??

    I'm not going back and forth with you on this because we obviously see things differently.
     
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  14. Major

    Major Member

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    And that's what makes the Astros' offer so stupid. No one else was concerned with the back and were happy to offer 10-13 yr, $300MM+ deals.

    It was the lower leg - an injury that became an issue in September 2022 - that scared teams off. So apples-to-apples healthwise, the Astros deal was less half of what the Giants and Mets were willing to give him, despite him being a year older and getting 1 less year of his prime. THAT is why the Astros' offer was so woefully bad and easy to reject.

    Even with an additional injury, Correa was able to get a longer, bigger deal than the Astros' offer that didn't even account for the leg aggravation.
     
  15. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    Well if it was his back then how does the fact that Carlos had to "settle" for the shorter contract fit your narrative?

    Multiple physicals multiple teams no reports of any back issues

    No back related issues on over 3 years.

    You are using the results of a lower leg issue to say "see the Astros were right to not offer 10 years" because he has a bad back?
     
  16. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    These things do not happen in a vacuum. What either party wants is never the only thing that matters. In this case what the Astros wanted and what Carlos wanted did not match up. There is nothing sinister about that.
    I am an Astros fan, have been for many years and I am getting tired of people beating up on my team over this. If you can only see one side of this the fault is your own. This crap would be better received on an LA or a NY site. Stop insulting me and stop insulting my team.
     
  17. the shark

    the shark Member

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    The Astros negotiations with Correa were last yr, not this yr. At the time what they were looking at was a guy who missed a ton of games with them because of back issues. So given that knowledge they weren't going to risk giving a guy a deal that would take him into his mud 30s.

    Have you ever had back issues? Most people that have back issues aren't going to have something that's going to show up on a scan at any point in time. Something could show up when they do something but that's just it, most people who have back issues deal with it on an ongoing basis. Are there things you can do to improve it? Yes. However it's usually something that stays with you. Throw in a professional athlete who puts his body through hell and it's only going to get worse over time.

    So maybe a team like SF was willing to take a gamble on Correa's back given they lost out on Judge and the were desperate to find a face of their franchise. They were willing to overpay on a long-term deal. Then on top of the back issues they found the leg issue. Same thing with the Mets. Neither of these teams just turned away and just said "no". They were willing to give him a 5-6 yr guarantee but anything after that they wanted to put clauses in to protect themselves because they both know there's a good chance that Correa's going to have health issues as he gets to his mid 30s. Whether that's his back or his leg. The Twins ultimately were able to do just that (a shorter term contract with vesting clauses).

    And my point is I don't care about right now. I'm going back to last yr and what knowledge the Stros had at the time and Correa's track record with them. Missing a ton of games because of his BACK not his leg. So yes they don't like giving 8+ yr contracts but giving him a 5/160 sure in the hell wasn't an "insulting" offer. Correa obviously thought so but guess what in order for him to get the 300+ mil with the Twins he better stay healthy because he did not get it guaranteed.

    So let's sit back and see how Correa's health pans out. I have NOTHING against the guy and hope that he does stay healthy. If I were a betting man However he's going to have back issues (not the leg issue).
     
  18. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    I'm done talking about this. We are all Astros fans and can all take joy in that.

    I'm never going to convince you and you are never going to convince me.
     
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  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    The Astros weren’t giving him that deal due to his medical issues. That was the most they were willing to give any player, regardless. The Twins had all his medicals from last year… and wanted to give him a 10 year deal before the leg issue showed up.

    All in all, the back hasn’t scared other teams away. Only clutchfans internet warriors….
     
  20. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    Similar to what Correa reports. Interesting that they’d use the same doctor and only use his report when other doctors aren’t necessarily corroborating it. Dude is either right or he single handedly cost Correa tens of millions of dollars.


    https://apple.news/AWEYke14zQ-SaTWz_kVdBVg

    The Giants’ deal collapsed only after consulting with orthopedic specialist Dr. Robert Anderson, who expressed concerns about the fragility of Correa’s right ankle that required surgery in 2014. Farhan Zaidi, Giants president of baseball operations, said, the deal was off. Boras summoned Correa to his hotel room to break the news, leaving Correa in disbelief.

    Boras retreated to his room and within an hour was on the phone with Mets owner Steve Cohen. Just 15 hours later, they had a deal. Correa and his family, who had even spent a day house-hunting in San Francisco before the scheduled press conference, tackled Boras in excitement in his room. The Correa family flew home to Houston, and then were off to New York on Cohen’s private plane for a physical to make it official.

    Correa took his physical, and two days later, the Mets balked too. Yes, they had also consulted with Anderson, who advised against a long-term contract, leaving Boras absolutely seething.

    “I don’t understand the Mets,’’ Boras said. “I gave them all of the information. We had them talk to four doctors. They knew the issue the Giants had. And yet, they still call the same doctor the Giants used for his opinion. There was no new information. So why negotiate a contract if you were going to rely on the same doctor?

    “It was different with the Giants because a doctor had an opinion they didn’t know about. But the Mets had notice of this. They knew the opinion of the Giants. So why did you negotiate when you know this thing in advance?"
     

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