This desperate attempt at "abortion" is stupid and pathetic and tragic. Those two sad people could have gone with the flow of the universe (that they started) for five more months and turned those twins over to an eager couple and their two offspring could have led a wonderful life. It was just too inconvenient to do that, I guess. Instead the two kids get boot-stomped and I'm supposed to feel more than a twinge of regret for the stompers? They made an utterlly selfishness choice in doing this. The mother should be punished as well. She has a right to a medical procedure not torture by heel.
That depends where one is in the pro-choice spectrum of views. The argument there would be that since people will pursue abortion anyway we might as well keep it legal where it can be conducted under controlled circumstances by a professionals.
most pro-choicers i know at least agree with me that they'd like to reduce the number of abortions out there. the idea that people will do anything, as evidenced here, to terminate a pregnancy should be chilling to all of us.
Your punishments will not transform their ignorance and fears. I thought pro-lifers didn't want to "punish" women. True colors are being shown.
Chilling yes but this an example of Andymoon's argument that an abortion ban might lead to greater harm as people seek abortions in other ways. This is why one of my admonitions to pro-lifers is that the root causes of why people seek abortions need to be addressed. You can obviously do that and seek a legal ban at the same time but without the root causes addressed we might still end up with not much of a reduction of abortions just a whole lot of gruesome illegal ones like this situation.
And we could have sent Hitler to sensitivity training while letting the ovens at Dachau and Treblinka keep burning
Exactly. If we work together instead of fighting each other, we could reduce abortion rates dramatically.
Can I hear a Kum Bay Yah? I'm interested in saving the lives of the innocent children who get conceived even though they are not planned nor are they wanted. If you don't want to concern yourself with them, fine, but why do you want to over-ride my concern for those lives. Because it will inconvenience the somebodies who created that life?
Like the pro-choice side, we have a wide array of views. Personally, I don't see how this girl is any different from Andrea Yates. She should face the same consequences that her accomplice does. This seems like a perfect case to result in the overturning of Roe v. Wade, because the law that would be challenged defines life as beginning at conception. If you are a person at conception, then there are already laws that exist that protect you from being killed.
This is why one of my admonitions to pro-lifers is that the root causes of why people seek abortions need to be addressed. You can obviously do that and seek a legal ban at the same time but without the root causes addressed we might still end up with not much of a reduction of abortions just a whole lot of gruesome illegal ones like this situation. The same should be said about pro-choicers. Both sides (in terms of the political movements) have simply focused on the legality of abortions. The pro-life movement rarely ever discusses any strategy of reducing abortions except making them illegal, but the exact same is the case for pro-choicers - the argument is consistently "woman's right to choose" and nothing more.
Because that "life" if it is indeed one, is simply none of your business. It is only the business of the "somebodies" (and IMO, only one of them), their doctor, and God. You have no business sticking your nose (or your legislation) in someone else's body.
This is the reason it is difficult to make progress on this issue. If you truly cannot distinguish the difference then you are blind.
Because that "life" if it is indeed one, is simply none of your business. It is only the business of the "somebodies" (and IMO, only one of them), their doctor, and God. You have no business sticking your nose (or your legislation) in someone else's body. By this standard, I presume you are against laws against murder? If one believes a fetus is life, then it is no different than murder. The life is being killed by another party, against its will - period. That is something that we, as a society, have determined is unacceptable. The big question, of course, is the first "if". Once you have presumed that, though (as you did in your first sentence), it damn well is society's business.
Maybe if they were not too busy fighting, they could focus on that more. I am pro-legal, but I'm not shouting "right to choose". More like "safe to choose without persecution, damnation and incarceration".
Maybe if they were not too busy fighting, they could focus on that more. I am pro-legal, but I'm not shouting "right to choose". More like "safe to choose without persecution, damnation and incarceration". As you mention, you're relatively "moderate" in the scale of things - the pro-choice political movement, however, is known for its unrelenting "abortion should be legal" and that's about it - no compromise, no push to reduce abortions, nothing but "woman's right to choose". The generalizations you make about the pro-life movement similarly only capture one small portion of the pro-life group. A substantial majority, I believe (including many here such as MadMax), have far more depth in their views than "abortion should be illegal".
